Hai Guys!

I wanted to broach the subject of opening a new branch of VS on another game.

I’ve tried several times to get myself motivated to get back into WoW, but the love is gone, man. My love for VS, however, still beats strong. I miss you guys. A lot. I want to hang out and play with you guys. I just can’t do it in WoW anymore. I’m sure I’m not the only one with this problem, so I am volunteering to spearhead our move into a newer game.

Before anyone freaks out, I think the intent here is to still support WoW with active forums and scheduled events for those that want to, but also to stretch our gangly tentacles into a new realm. After all, VS started way back when as a guild for AC2, then moved to WoW. WoW will always be a part of VS- Don’t worry about that.

Many members have, over time, posted about other MMOs or games, and many of us have dabbled together (STO, SWTOR, EVE, LOTRO, etc), but none of this was in the context of actually having full, official guild support. Well that is what I am suggesting we do.

I have a feeling several old, sorely missed members may return if we do this, and we’d also have the option of recruiting fresh new blood. Of course we would maintain our high standards of recruitment and strict no-drama policy. I’d really like to see VS thriving again, even if it’s in a new skin.

So then the question becomes: What game? As I said, there have been many hot new games suggested on the forums that have gotten great reviews, huge initial sales, then steadily and quickly declined into relative disuse. There is a reason we’re all still in WoW and not playing those games, or even more current ones like Rift or Guild Wars 2. So I’m wary of selecting one that has a lame or dying or soon to be declining community. I think our best bet lies with a new game. We can use the momentum of a beta/launch event to shepherd willing VSers and drive new recruitment. There is a chance that our new game may also be lame or fail, but I think VS as a community is strong enough to wander until we find a home- should that be necessary.

So what do you think?

In case you are shocked by this post, I've already spoken one on one with many of the veteran members, including the officers, so this isn't totally out of the blue. But that doesn't mean we've already made all the decisions- I want to hear your input! The bottom line is that I want to see VS get it's groove back, and I think this is the best way to do it.

You're definitely correct that warcraft no longer feels shiny. For me, there just isn't any games that make me excited at this point.

I'd be happy to try out another game with my VS friends. I doubt I'd ever totally quit WoW, because I have so much time and effort invested in it and I'm comfortable there, but I could certainly see splitting my gaming time.

You're definitely correct that warcraft no longer feels shiny. For me, there just isn't any games that make me excited at this point.

This is exactly the problem. No game is going to be WoW. Objectively, measurably, no MMO has come close to the level of active subscribers and commercial success as WoW.

Even if we find a game that is very healthy (GW2 is doing well, for instance), any one particular choice isn't going to please everyone in the guild. The best we can do is take our best shot.

Many strong gaming communities exist across multiple games and weather the lifecycle changes of their various gaming platforms well. It shouldn't be the game itself that defines VS, but the players. If we decide to move to game X and 6-8 months later the game community is dead and nobody in VS is having fun, we should be able to move again. That's not ideal, but its possible. Good guilds do this.

I can't really afford to game hop. I'm getting tired of WoW, but I'm not sure I want to replace it with more screen time...

Maybe we could start a book club!

Yeah, that'll go over well.

Kitynn - Some games are actually free to play! Gota and I are going to check out Tera, which you can download and play for free. I'm a little skeptical about finding a game that will be as enjoyable as WoW was/is, but I do like the idea of trying to get some old friends playing together again.

Cost of course is something to consider: any serious contender for a new game is most likely free to play, meaning that you'll no longer have to support your WoW subscription costs (or at least not add another new one if you keep WoW). Some games are even free to download (TERA), though others do require the standard retail purchase but are free after that (GW2).

New games just aren't going the subscription route anymore. Rather, they entice people in with "FREE" and then offer premium services that people pay for.

I've been all over the map with MMO's. In general, I've been taking a break from them. Mostly been playing modded Minecraft, which I enjoy more than vanilla.

In regards to picking up another game, I guess I am curious if the focus would be another fantasy MMO, or something different?

If you want a quality fantasy MMO, then Rift should be tried as you can play with almost all features for an unlimited time up to level 20. This is the same as Blizzard does with WoW. I've read that that player and guild housing, which comes in the form of separate dimensions, is the best there is out there.

I also really like LOTRO for the lore and the gameplay. I also liked the player housing but really only dabbled with that.

Elder Scrolls Online is generating a lot of interest right now too. Also, Darkfall 2 is creeping out of the shadows and drags in those people that step through the curtain, or so I've heard.

Warhammer Online also has a free intro. I like some of the game mechanics of that game. Also has the most similar look to WoW I think.

Sci-Fi wise, SWTOR should be the top choice. The free to play option is very lacking though and almost requires you spend some money to get a real feel for the whole game. The only issue with it, and it's the issue that is killing the game, is that once you go through the great storyline quests, there's very little end game. That is changing now.

Star Trek online is really great, if crowded. Playing for free is very possible and rewarding. Crafting is lacking but has improved.

That's just a few.

Somehow I knew Mal would have a lot to say on this subject!

Good info on all the choices that are out there.

Okay, so I'm going to start this with what I believe we should try as I don't think everyone will read through my write up on most current MMOs.

I believe our best bet would be a game that has not been released yet. We can build bonds as we level and learn a new game as a team instead of a bunch of people trying to race to max level. With that said I think our best bet is The Elder Scrolls Online. Who knows if TESO will even be that great, I'm hoping a few of us get into beta and can share our experiences to help make the decision easier. I've played nearly every current MMO on the market from launch and the one thing that is always missing is VS. I can never find a guild that lives up to what I'm looking for so I end up fading away.

The other game that is coming out fairly soon is the relaunch of Final Fantasy XIV. Yes, it was complete crap when it first released but the new game director is taking it into a new direction and it is looking fairly good from what I've played in the beta. The big knock against this one is it isn't free to play so it'll be hard convincing everyone to lay down money for an unproven game.

But like I said I do really believe that starting a game together is our best bet. However, if we decide to move toward a game that is already out then here is what I've learned from playing most of them.

Rift- Really great game. One of the few games besides WoW I've actually raided with a guild in. The community is pretty good and the guild housing and dimensions are amazing. People are really doing some incredible stuff with the tools Trion has given them. The skill system is fairly nice too. If you choose a class you have multiple options for building your character. You're not stuck with one option. Want a stealth rogue that plays like a hunter? You can make that. Want a battle cleric? You can make that. The options aren't limitless but there is quite a lot of customization. But like FFXIV this game also requires a sub so that is the biggest knock against it. It definitely could move to F2P soon but as of now it is not.

The Secret World- I really enjoy Secret World. Its a completely different setting than most MMOs on the market and is free after you buy it. And after you buy it the game really is free. It also has a really good skill system and some of the best storytelling through quests an dungeons that I've seen. The knocks against it, in my opinion, are the bugs as there are a few. Though a lot of them have been fixed since launch a few still stick around. The other is that the game is fairly hard solo. As in near impossible.

LOTRO- Definitely F2P to a certain point. Not a lot of bad things to say about LOTRO. It will feel a lot like WoW with some really awful armor. Seriously the first 40 levels you'll look ridiculous unless you buy something from the cash shop. But it has a good community. They say the whole game is free to play however unless you find the item that unlocks a zone you'll have to buy it from the cash shop. If someone can correct me on if this has changed since I've played it would be appreciated.

SWTOR- I'd hardly call this one F2P. Yes, the story missions from level 1 to max are free. But your journey there is going to be met with moments of you screaming "I have to pay for that????!!!!". Everything from action bars to mount speed you have to buy. You'll finish a quest and the reward will be greyed out because you aren't a subscriber. This gets very annoying. Like to turn your head armor off? You'll need to buy that. EA and Bioware have a lot of work to do with the F2P model before I think this is a viable option.


With all that said I definitely would love to play some different games with VS members but think the best bet for a full guild move is still a new game. Be it TESO or something else.

I'm not weighing in on any specific new game option. WoW is less shiny, but that's not really why I play less. I just don't have the same time I did when I worked retail, and that's not something that's going to change. Though part of it was also an inability to stay up late enough to raid with the new job and subsequent complete lack of desire to heroic, but ... I'm rambling. My point is, I will probably follow wherever the guild goes, but I'll be like Rastus, keeping a toe in the WoW door.

I too have found it hard to rekindle the desire to play WoW. I attempted to try again recently, but the desire to play wasn't there... Just the desire to be able to hang out online with you guys again. If the group can agree on a place to call a new home, I would probably follow. I have not really paid any attention to most of the games out there in the last while. The only one that has my interest right now is XCOM: Enemy Unknown.. But that doesn't really fit into the MMO world. :)

Being in the far west time zone isn't helping sometimes. The only game I'm really interested in would be The Elder Scrolls Online (need to finish up Skyrim, get the new addition that just came out).

Zirex is playing The Secret World right now, and he seems to enjoy it a lot. I watched him play TERA too - I called it his fanboi game, since the characters and outfits were basically fanboi wetdreams. I did the free trial and played one day and then felt meh about playing it again. Maybe if there were more people, I'd try it again.

But yeah, right now it's mostly a time issue. I get home from work so late, and then if I want to do anything else (cook, exercise, clean, watch a movie, etc) that's about all I have time for before I have to go to bed to get up the next morning. So my game time has decreased big time.

To reply/add to Shadian's post:

Forgot about Secret World. It is somewhat unique in flavor. I didn't care as much for the skill system but I think I am in the minority there.

I touched on SWTOR being a poor free to play model, but what he says is more accurate and fair. To play it completely free would probably be a really stupid thing to do so planning on spending money to play this title is what you'd have to do.

If everyone is really just wanting to hang out, then I should just get a Minecraft server going. I was actually looking at doing that anyway for a couple friends of mine that might not even play but I was hoping would if I got a server going. If this actually happens anyone in VS would be welcome. I'm pretty sure some VS folks got in on eyeshark's server about a year or two ago. The game has improved since then, and I would also be running a modded server if I do this. What this means is that there would be tons more content. I would probably run a Feed The Beast server (http://www.feed-the-beast.com/) which has several packs to choose from or I might go with Tekkit (http://www.technicpack.net/tekkit/). The mods add anything from electrical power, to nukes, magic, advanced rail systems, automatic farms to name a few. There's even a mod that adds the portal gun from Portal that functions the same way! Minecraft is very awesome with mods! I'll know more about a possible server in a few days.

Back to MMO discussion though, I was personally put off by TESO because it sounds like you have to choose specific factions. This shoe-horns people to pick a race they might not prefer. So if everyone in a guild picks their preferred race, the players will be spread across all factions. I also am actively avoiding going with any new release since I feel I got burned on SWTOR.

Also a word about GW2: this game is pretty popular. It feels to me like there's nothing new there. Not to say it's not a good game but I personally feel Rift is better. This opinion is totally discounting PvP, which I've not played on either game and don't care for anyway. I've heard GW2 has very good PvP. I think there was a huge PvP bug that caused much consternation recently but maybe I heard that wrong.

I should also add that MMO's in general are getting too grindy for me. I'm waiting for the paradigm shift that engages me. I think that's why I am enjoying Minecraft so much. I just do what I want when I want. I don't feel like a rat in a wheel. There's a point A and a point B still but the only grinding is gathering resources and mods change all that. So I am not all that excited about any MMO's, after over 13 years of grinding them. That's why I don't recommend any of the MMO's as the perfect choice.

Finally, if I could be so bold, I've found another guild that multi-games. I consider myself VS first but I don't play WoW anymore so when SWTOR was launching I was going to be a part of Killian's guild but then decided I did not want to play empire. I then joined another guild to play a trooper. They have five active divisions consisting of WoW, Planetside 2, Guild Wars 2, Rift and SWTOR. However, many members just play games of all kinds. There was a strong showing for DayZ (and still is I think). There's a group playing Minecraft. Mechwarrior Online was being played for a while. If there's a game, there are people willing to get together and play it.

This other guild is more toned down (gee ya think?) than VS but all the members really are nice, organized and fun. If VS doesn't decide to move to another game I would recommend this guild as a nice group of people that you will be able to find players of other games with. Definitely not VS but might fill that void while trying to play other games that VSers aren't playing. http://www.guardianhq.com/

Strangely enough, I just got moved into our new house, got my own private space for the first time in ages, just got my desk for my office and have barely had time to think about getting into gaming again and here's Brendar talking about getting VS energized for something different. Might just be coincidence, might not.

I turned off my WoW subs last week; they expire in a week or so. Lately I've been trying pvp but it just became too much of a frustration as it really isn't possible to catch-up if you don't start with the season.

I bought GW2 last fall and it seems good, but I haven't really went far there yet. Some differences, but still alot like WoW. No sub is a huge bonus. I pop in occasionally and do a few quests but I'm only lvl 32 there.

I reinstalled Eve this week as I've spent as much time there over the years as in WoW. I just haven't pulled the pin and resubbed yet. On the fence right now for that one. Eve has been dying out as much as WoW, but I hear there are alot of changes there. The learning curve for it is extreme, but that is ok for me as I have some very well established pilots and a bit of a slush fund to get restarted. One of the best things about eve is the economy is much better managed and you don't usually get caught with inflation like WoW has every expansion.

Not an MMO, but I discovered that there is active development on 'Capitalism Lab' now which is an update to one of the best ever economic sims 'Capitalism 2'. That sucked me in last night...

...
Not an MMO, but I discovered that there is active development on 'Capitalism Lab' now which is an update to one of the best ever economic sims 'Capitalism 2'. That sucked me in last night...

Ima check this out!

I think Mal has a good idea, a Minecraft server would pretty awesome for the guild to hang out in the interim. No set goals or objectives to meet. We could all just hang out in there and do whatever we feel like at that time. It probably isn't a long term option but would be fun.

Linnaris was talking about the TESO faction thing today and it was her biggest concern with it. Someone will be unhappy. I'd say if we put it to a vote we may find that only certain people had a big preference about which faction. We could have all the factions as options and then an option to go with whatever wins. I would fall into the group that doesn't really care.

I hope to get into the beta and should be able to answer a lot of questions, hopefully.

Nope, not leaving.

Only other MMO with the potential not to suck is ESO.

We have done all the rest and they all have been relegated to free-to-play status poseurs.

Take away the boards, raiders, everybody...I will be the last VS'r standing if need be.

And that is that.

Nope, not leaving.

Only other MMO with the potential not to suck is ESO.

We have done all the rest and they all have been relegated to free-to-play status poseurs.

Take away the boards, raiders, everybody...I will be the last VS'r standing if need be.

And that is that.

I get that too. I know you've tried several or maybe all of them? Of course, as has been said, I don't know that you've tried them with other VS'ers....

Like I told Bren earlier, VS isn't about WoW for me, it's about all you fine people. :D I'm definitely not into WoW like I was, but I have no plans to quit. I love the pet battles...perhaps I should buy a Pokeymans game for my DS.

Elder Scrolls Online looks the most promising of any MMO. One consideration about this game is platform, it will run on OS X. I did break down and buy a PC laptop for Christmas, so that opens up my game options a bit. We'd still have to figure out something for Dondoh.

Of the games that are already out, I am most interested in trying Minecraft and LOTRO. So if a VS Minecraft server happens I am there. And if anyone wants to play LOTRO and show me around Middle Earth I would appreciate that. :)

To quote Delmar from Oh Brother Where Art Thou, "I'm with you fellas."

VS4LYFE!

I get that too. I know you've tried several or maybe all of them? Of course, as has been said, I don't know that you've tried them with other VS'ers....

Mal, I have very little tolerance for tools, and F2P's and PvP-centric games are full of them.

Now FF XIV may hold promise...there was a "fishing class" in the original game; I have no idea if one still exists.

I have been in this guild many many moons; people come and go, whole groups leave, everything changes and everything stays the same.

But the entire guild up and leaving for TOR? RIFT? GW2? Nah.

My vote would also be with TESO as it is a new game and a lot of us seem interested in it. As for WoW, I don't know if I would give up on it completely, and may end up popping in there still from time to time. I think the idea would be that VS ends up with 2 homes - one in WoW and one in another game.

Well I did it, back to Eve for a while. I'll see where everyone ends up though and possibly join you.

Something else I tried lately but haven't gotten into is Google's new game/experiment, Ingress. I've gone no-where with this as I'm out in the suburbs and it is no-mans land for portals at this point. It is more location/real world based though so would work better for people in the same city.

I have been tempted to try out TERA online. I have to say that even though I came back and it's been awesome, the shiny is starting to wear off again. I definitely want to go with something F2P though, for now.