Our Raid/Instance Wiki: http://wikihost.org/wikis/vsraid

Well, it's finally happened - we're doing raids. Many of you thought it would never happen. But last week we did our first UBRS raid and this week we're headed into Zul'Gurrub.

Being the guild we are, we're not doing these raids in the normal way. We're still not gonna let in any old player, just because he has the gear, money or time to grind MC for 6 hours a day. We're still not gonna require that players go buy an extra sock and a 64 gallon jug to keep at their computer desks. There's a difference between doing raids and being a 'raiding guild'. And we never want to cross that line.

But raids introduce new challenges and new tactics, so we're going to have to adjust a few things. Otherwise we'll spend most of our nights being eaten by dragons. And that's funny only so many times.

Change The First: CTRaidAssist

Please please please go install this if you're coming to UBRS or ZG.

Go here: http://www.ctmod.net/downloads.ct
Click Deselect All
Select CTRaidAssist
Click Download Selected
Install it like you would any other Addon

Why this mod? The two major reasons are communication and targeting. Raid chat can get pretty cluttered, especially in this guild. CTRA allows raid leaders to display important messages to all members right in the middle of the screen, cutting through the chat clutter. It's nice.

Targeting is of vital importance in raids. We all need to focus on the right target at the right time. CTRA allows you to assign 1-5 people the role of Main Tank. Then you can always see which mob each MT is targeting. Then you can be sure that you're always attacking the right mob. Hooray!

CTRA offers a ton more features. Buffing, dubuffing, color coding, automatic raid invites, etc. I'm happy to help configure this stuff for you. But even if you never do any of the nitty gritty config stuff, it's still an invaluable tool. Go get it.

Change The Second: Raid Guides

Some of us have spent many hours in ZG and UBRS. Many of us have not. We should take advantage of the folks who have wasted their lives ... oh, wait... folks who know the instances best. These fights get pretty technical, especially in ZG, so having and listening to someone that knows the scoop will only help us in the end.

Note that I'm not calling this person the "Raid Boss" or "Raid Leader" or "King of Shit Mountain." The guide is responsible for explaining strategy, not simply ordering people around. THIS IS IMPORTANT. Note the bold red text. I am very much interested in Why I am using a specific strategy, not in just being ordered around.

So the Raid Guide will be saying things like "Rin, target the Summoner and everyone assist him. If we don't, the summoner will call forth about 10 elite orcs and we'll all die." The RG will point out pitfalls, tell us which targets need our attention first and, where applicable, show us where we should be standing.

Change The Third: Vent

Pretty much everyone has Vent installed. So this isn't really a change. You don't have to talk on vent; as long as you can hear what the Raid Guide and others are saying, that's enough. Just like add-ons, you don't have to install vent if you don't want to. But then you won't get to hear me talk while hopped up on nyquil.


There are other changes we need to make, adjustments to strategy and the like. But we'll learn that stuff through experience.

I'll follow this post up with more info about raiding strategy, tools and other good stuff.

Raiding Tactics - The Main Tank

We use the term Main Tank a lot. Every instance run has a MT. But as we move up to raids, the MT takes on a whole new significance.

Those of you who were with us at the Rend fight last week in UBRS got a taste of the MT's importance. One second we were standing, the next second everyone but plate wearers were dead.

The MTs job hasn't changed much from 5-man instances. The MT grabs aggro and keeps all the mobs focused on him. If applicable, the MT faces the mobs in a specific direction or pulls them to a defined spot.

What has changed is how we assist the tank (more on that later) and how we need to manage our aggro. In most 5-man instances you could accidentally pull aggro from the main tank and be ok. This is no longer the case. Pull aggro and you'll probably die.

As we raid, bosses are going to hit the MT for absurd amounts of damage. One Naxx boss hit a player for 13k damage. That one shot would kill me 4 times over. We're not fighting Naxx-level bosses, obviously. But the guys we're fighting still hit hard. Harder than I, as your healer, can keep up with. The MT has the skills and the armor necessary to mitigate this damage. And I will be focusing all of my healing spells on her. So if you suddenly grab aggro, I won't be able to help you.

What does this mean for damage dealers? Control your aggro. If you have the choice between nuking a target and using a slightly lower level spell, take the lower level spell.

Aggro management is something that we'll have to learn by trial and error. But if you remain cautious, you'll stay alive.

Raiding Tactics - The Main Assist (MA)

This is a new term, but I think it will be a useful one. Each raid will have one MA. The job of the MA is to focus on the mob that the raid needs to kill first.

In most fights the MT will go attack a bunch of mobs and get them to focus on her. She'll be shifting her target from mob to mob making sure they are all attacking her. Because of this, assiting the main tank is not always the best thing to do. As the MT shifts targets, the raid could end up attacking a bunch of different mobs.

Enter the MA. The MA will focus on only one mob. All raid members can then assist the MA and be confindent that they are killing the mob that needs to go down first. When a mob goes down, the MA will change his focus to a new mob, and the raid will follow him.

You know, message boards are great for many things. Like posting messages. But they aren't so great for storing raiding and instance strategies, which are constantly being refined and expanded.

What would work really well for these guides is a wiki. So we now have a wiki.

http://wikihost.org/wikis/vsraid

Woo!

Ok. I put some basic info in the wiki. I'll add more later. I set it up so that anyone can edit it. No need to sign up for an account or anything.

can we get a permalink to that somewhere on the site? I know I can bookmark it, but it'll be useful to have that in a fairly prominent position.

This thread is sticked so it's permalinked.

Might be a good idea to work it into the first post.

Which I did just as you were typing that.

It wouldn't be a VS thread if it wasn't somewhat off-topic... While you are downloading CT_RaidAssist, I highly recommend the CT_MailMod. It allows you to do easily queue up to 21 items at a time (very handy when sending stuff to an alt or for those 20 stacks of thorium shells requests I keep gettting).

This thread is sticked so it's permalinked.


Yes, I know that, so is my bookmark. I'm thinking this is a tool that could be useful for more than just one scenario so having a link from somewhere within the framework of the site (like albums) would be useful. I'd also have an RPGO link up there, but that's just me.

Then again, I'm not the web designer so, feel free to ignore me.

The rpgo link is secetly linked in the "Guild Overview" text. I'd like us to keep most of our important links centralized in stickies.

All good. As I said, I'm not the designer :)

Thanks, for the feedback though.

The post has me thinking on just these terms and I have put together some ideas that I have used succesfully in the past. In a guild such as ours, who is looking at end-game content, as well as battlegrounds, we have to try and establish a synergy that will make us a well-oiled machine. I feel this is needed if we really intend to tackle high end instances.

Without offending any arms/fury warriors out there, I would conclude that a def tank has more of a place in tanking than a fury spec’d warrior. This is because of the idea of a “meat shield”. I am a 10/5/36 def build. I take damage, both from players and from mobs. I give others the chance to do the damage that I can’t. This is necessary to run successful raids on instances and control enemy lines in a PvP environment. It’s not about being the all-star, it’s about fine-tuning the way you play to better use your skills and the skills of the other players, such as the priest, who arguably heals better when he doesn’t have a host of mobs attacking him. This is accomplished rather simply, by provoking, etc, and being ready to get the mobs on you, and KEEP them on you.

As tanks we should strive to be the best we can, and as far as warriors in instances, this just isn’t possible without at least having 15 points in defensive at a minimum. Warriors in the guild need be ready and able to change their build for the sake of the guild as we progress. The spec I currently use is optimized for the 5-10man instances we currently run. If we ever take ZG seriously or MC then I plan to redo my spec. For example, I currently have 2 points in improved Revenge which gives me a 40% chance to stun the mob for 3 secs which is great for what we do. The problem later on is everything is immune to stun in the larger instances so these would be wasted points better used elsewhere.

Guild tanks need to be ready to discuss tanking strategy with each other, to polish the process. This being said, I am developing a strategy for the guild that has proved itself over and over in other guilds I have been in. We MUST have the cooperation of all party/raid members in order for this to work, so here goes:

EXAMPLE- Rinader: Main Tank (MT), Widget: Main Assist (MA), Palarino /Canyonman / etc: Second Assist (SA)

-Rinader pulls 4 mobs from range, or by charging

-Widget pulls mob 1, a predetermined target, and the MA/SA will trade aggro and keep mobs off of the other party members.
The SAs job is to take over for the MA if he goes down or if the MT goes down and the MA needs to take over that slot. Otherwise they follow the lead of the MA. SAs are not to use hate building skills such as sunder armor, which is the MA’s job. Again, communication and predetermined strategies is the key here.

-Rinader maintains aggro on other 3/4/5 mobs at this point (If you would like strategies on how to keep multiples on you I will provide details later)

-All party members WILL focus fire the MA/SA’s target (deviation will result in death:P)

-After mob 1 is dead, no one but MA will go to pull mob 2 off of Rinader. SAs stay put and wait for the MA to pull the mob back.

-Once in position, All focus fire on mob 2, rinse and repeat

-OPTIONAL, if a mage/rogue/priest is present, they will immobilize a predetermined mob, which is obviously to be left alone.

The best part of this strategy is the tremendous organization that results. The temptation is for people to go ahead and break from the group in the case of additional mobs, or to play solo, however this is a poor decision. Healers are then required to focus on 3-4 or more other players, rather than the specified tank/assists. Remember, synergy is the goal (let people do there jobs, and it will all play out as desired). As I said earlier, I will discuss both my build and aggro strategies with others at their request.

I'm now a 7/44/0 build. ...and there was much DPSing.

I am a nub, how do you create new pages within the wiki? I see how to edit existing pages and create links, etc, but not how to create a new subpage :(

I have wasted my life and am happy to share the bounty of that waste with everyone <3

Say you want your page to be about nude raiding.

First, edit the page that you want to link to your new page.

Add a link ]. Then save the page.

Now you'll see "nude raiding" in red text. Click on it & you can edit the Nude Raiding page.

Thanks to Deme for providing a lot of good ZG content. I've been working on organizing and writing some Strath UD strategies. It's coming along nicely!

http://wikihost.org/wikis/vsraid

I'd just like to say to remember that respec'ing isn't required. Everyone could be more 'efficient' or 'effective' in some way, but we love ourselves pure and untwisted by that freakish mentality that can overcome guilds who raid. You know what I mean... 'we can't do this with you if you aren't *insert spec here*'. I'm sure, at some point, most 'raiding guilds' were 'a guild that raids'.

There are things that I feel should be a given, regardless of spec. If you're a warrior tanking, then wear a shield and a weapon with decent speed. If you're a face melting priest or a feral druid who is the PH for that group, work your gear to where you will be the most effective. That's about all that we should literally ASK of anyone. Just, do your best. If you want to change, it's a personal choice, and by no means (which I know nobody here is saying it's mandatory, this is more of a disclaimer) required.

Now.. Be free with your temple.

Thanks for making it a little less unwieldy XD I'm still getting the hang of wiki-editing. I'll be writing some more today, just breaking down what I know of each boss's abilities and how I've dealt with them in the past.

I want to make it VERY clear that if anyone has any issue with the way VS is moving into doing actual raids, please post and let us know and give your feedback with your thoughts. If you don't want to make your views public, feel free to send me a private message. As always, I'm here to address ANY and all concerns you may have with regards to VS. We want to be sure that you always enjoy your time with us and in WoW.

Preface: As you may or may not be aware of, I come from a hardcore raid background. I know what it takes and frankly there is a reason I do not do it anymore. I enjoy myself in VS and there is no guild I would rather be in. However I feel it incumbent upon myself to bring this up. From my experience, in order to accomplish a 40 man raid the current relaxed atmosphere will take a background to the need for clear communication and people knowing their specific roles.

The crux of the issue here is; if we really want to do raids then we need a philosophy that runs counter to the current mood of the guild. I don’t want to be the one who tells the emperor has no clothes on but I think it needs to be said. In our current state we won't make it past the first boss in ZG or the first trash mobs in MC.

Raids are the next step in the progression if you want new content as a level 60 who has already lived in the 5-10 man instances. If you look at the upcoming patches they are only adding even more core raid instances. The only solution as I see it is that the people in the guild who want to make the effort and take the time needed to raid need to form a cooperative relationship with another guild and they raid together. Due to the manpower needs of a 20/40 man raid I see no other solution that doesn’t pressure people who do not want to raid.

Personally, I tend to make a new alt when I am tapped out with things to do with my 60 in order to ride out the wait for the expansion (and thus more non raid content) rather than try to make a square peg fit in a round hole.

Much love
Widget

I think you're entirely wrong about ZG, Widget. But only time is going to provide the answer.

I agree that, from everything I've seen and read, having a Raiding Mentality makes raiding *easier* -- but the difference is that I'm honestly enjoying the challenge of trying to fit square pegs into round holes (obviously, or I wouldn't be a shadow PH). I think that with teamwork, strategy, and preparation, anything is possible. Sure, it'll take us longer. Sure, it'll be harder work. But I would rather relish the challenge of making VS-as-it-is succeed than do anything to sacrifice the atmosphere we have.