Greetings everyone! Hail, well met and all that jazz! I wanted to take a couple of minutes to give everyone an idea of where VS, as a guild, is today and where we're going.

As some of you may have noticed, we've stopped recruitment. Occasionally we do this so that we can get to know all of our new members better before bringing in any more new faces. One of the great things about VS is that we all try and get to know one another and we make it a point not to have strangers among us. I am sure that in two to four weeks we'll open our doors again but when we do, we'll continue to only recruit and promote those we feel "fit". I know our application system is not perfect but it's not bad either. Bad seeds are going to get in. We're too nice to turn people away without giving them a chance. However, we love our high anti-l33t standards and those fucktards that do weasel their way in will be promptly booted.

There are growing concerns that as VS grows and ventures into new content (raiding *gasp*) that we are starting to look a lot less VS and more like that which we despise and fear becoming. Personally, I think nothing could be further from the truth. VS is a casual guild and always will be a casual guild. For every weekly raid scheduled, there will always be at least five 5-man runs taking place. We will never institute a dkp system and those that raid with us, be it once a month or four times a month, will have an equal chance at getting ubah gear. Eventually, VS will run MC and the like -- possibly sooner than we all realize but when it happens, it will be done the VS way and no one will be forced or even asked to participate. Just like with everything else we do, it will be voluntarily.

VS will change, that is what happens when we grow and mature but our principals and the idea that is VS will not change. If any of you ever have questions or concerns related to VS, please come to myself, Jak or Gleja. My ear is always open and I take everything you all say to heart. VS is my baby, as it is for many of us, and we want our baby to grow up and be the best motherfucking guild around.

Thanks everyone!

All hail overlord! All hail the Don!

*claps*

But Viraj just gave me this orange jumpsuit...

All hail overlord! All hail the Don!



THESE ARE TWO DISTINCT PERSONAGES, Viraj being overlord and the Don being the Don. JUST SO EVERYONE KNOWS.

i DIBSED being overlord, someone ELSE can call dibs next week.

Also, all hail VS: the only guild where you can get drunk and wipe in Uldaman as easily as getting drunk and wiping in AQ20!

Just curious...how will you fairly distribute uber lewts without a dkp system?

What the heck are all these worms doing in this can?

It's a Victorious Secret. What? You don't know it?! *gasps*

The capos are working on a loot system that is still in its infancy but it will be fair and it will be great and you'll all love it damnit!!! ;) Seriously, we are working on a system and it'll eventually be made available for you all to critique and give your feedback. We won't implement anything without VS approval.

It's a Victorious Secret. What? You don't know it?! *gasps*

The capos are working on a loot system that is still in its infancy but it will be fair and it will be great and you'll all love it damnit!!! ;)


Here's what I'll say about that:

1) It won't reward attendance or punish you for having a real life
2) It will help get shiny gear into hands as fairly and as evenly as possible.

One other thing about MC. I said this in another thread, but I'll repeat it here - Just because we happen to have 40+ players that could hit MC, doesn't mean we have 40 players that want to hit MC. And since we'll never command anyone to attend a raid, finding a time that would work for 40 VS members will be extremely hard.

So worrying about MC loot is kind of like worrying about what you'll do with your lottery winnings, dig?

How is purple loot in MC different from purple loot in Scholo? That's pretty much how I'm looking at future loot systems. <3

I love this guild!! All hail VS!! Wooooo! Exclamation point!

Nicely written & well put.

Three Cheers for VS! Yay!

I reckon the major difference between Scholo purples and MC purples is that MC drops the same kind of gear every time you kill a boss, whereas Scholo epics don't drop every run. So, I suppose in that sense, it may actually be easier, since you know you're going to get a certain kind of loot every time you enter a 40 man.

My raiding guild was DKP based, and my brother's raiding guild is zero sum DKP (meaning that whoever had the most DKP at the time of the item drop got the item, there was no bidding against each other as in my guild) and I know of some other raiding guilds -- including a very successful 'casual' type guild -- that operates on ODL (officer distro loot). I don't really know of any other system aside from just rolling on everything, heh.

Oh yeah -- MC and BWL also help you out because most of their items are class items, meaning that ONLY the prescribed class is able even to put them on.

Additionally, even though we're talking about MC, the same sort of thing applies in AQ and ZG. A number of items are only for certain classes, and both 20 mans drop epics with some degree of regularity (as you've already seen).

whereas Scholo epics don't drop every run.


Apparently, it only happens if Torrin's there.

Purple loot in a forty person MC raid that can last 6 hours is ALOT different than purples in a 2 hour, 5 person scholo group. Five people needing an item that takes an hour to get over 40 people needing an item that takes HOURS to get is not even comparable.

I'm sure people aren't going to want to commit to a long MC raid and know that their time doesn't matter. For example: Warrior A has been at the raid 5 hours. Warrior B comes along in the raid at the 5 hour mark and BOOM Might drops. Is it fair that Warrior B gets that loot over Warrior A? Or say Priest A has been to MC for five straight raids, and hasn't gotten any Prophecy. This is Priest B's first MC raid. Priest B shouldn't get Prophecy over Priest A. You also have reagents that you're using TONS of, not to mention repair bills that are HUGE. I don't see how people's attendance can NOT be a factor.

And why is DKP such a bad acronym? I have no idea what kind of loot system is being devised. But I assume it is a system to help evenly distribute loot...also known as DKP. ;)

Really, everyone, worrying about this right now isn't all that useful.

1) We're not going to MC anytime soon.
2) We're not going to MC anytime soon.
3) We're not going to MC anytime soon.

So let's just head this off at the pass and save the conversation until it's remotely relevant.

I thought that the comment "VS will be running MC sooner than we realize" and "that the capos are working on a loot system" meant MC was in the near future.

1) Sorry for the comments
2) Sorry for the comments
3) Sorry for the comments

1) sooner than we realize = still a ways off but I can see it happening within six month
2) we're working on a loot system now just to get the ball rolling
3) numbers are fun!!

Let's not worry about it until we actually have something to present to all of you and then we'll throw it around the ringer and all blame Gleja if we don't like it. ;)

I think we should use ZKP (Zan Kill Points). Everyone guess how many times Zanphart will die before we hit a certain boss and then the person closest can roll.

I can't even run Scholo let alone MC.lol

We aren't going there for the loot anyway, so shoosh!

True enough, Torrin.

I didn't want to come off sounding like the Voice Of God, but I had the 'joy' of reading 7 pages of DKP conversation yesterday and didn't want to repeat the experience.

1) sooner than we realize = still a ways off but I can see it happening within six month
2) we're working on a loot system now just to get the ball rolling
3) numbers are fun!!

Let's not worry about it until we actually have something to present to all of you and then we'll throw it around the ringer and all blame Gleja if we don't like it. ;)

I'm pretty comfortable with that =p

I just thought this post was meant to facilitate just a such a discussion, hence mine and Karigan's responses. I feel that every possible loot system has advantages and disdvantages, because you can't please all of the people all of the time. It is very difficult to be fair with 40 man rewards because they do take great effort, in terms of time investment and synergy between characters, to obtain.

Karigan, on average, my repair bills while raiding were upwards of 16 gold, sometimes twice in one night :O I grew to loathe the repair bot. :(

Yeah I know...my highest with my priest has been 10.5g so far. And I'm always broke!

The new loot system better have the proper Affirmative Action Modifier Points availabelt to me.