Put on yer safety goggles, I'm gonna get wordy, bitches!

One of our recent apps got a lot of responses along the line of 'Oh, holy priest, we need more! We're short on healers!'. I blinked a little at that, and started doing some thinking and asking around. After talking to some of the other healers in the guild and some tanks as well, I have an observation.

Every group needs one tank and one healer. Then, depending on the goal, it may need three dps, or some crowd control, or an off-tank, or some mix thereof. A group of five is pretty much never going to need two healers, and probably never going to need three tanks.

So if you're a dps/crowd control class, and you're trying to make a group, if you can't find a tank or a healer, you have no group. You can't go anywhere, and you perceive a shortage.

But if you're a healer or a tank and you're not the only one, you may find yourself struggling to get into a group...because there's only one slot for a healer or a tank. You can't go anywhere, and you perceive a surplus.

We've had a lot of people take a break lately -- some have come back recently, some have gone to other guilds, and some may not return for a while. Arolaide, Lenlador, Fealane, Kaeryna, Rinader, Gleja, Jamisia, Lojac, for example. Everyone on that list is a healer or a tank (or both!). I don't know if any of them has had the same experience with finding a spot in groups, but it certainly can be frustrating, and a little boring.

How do the rest of you view it? Clearly, many of you perceive a shortage of tanks and healers, but I think we're well on the way to having our prior tank problem resolved, and between mains and alts, I think we have an abundance of healers. Is the problem just perception? Timing? Organization?

How can we on the healing/tanking side work better with you on the face-melting side?

you left homreker off that list.. I know he was saying in the office the other day the same thing... that the guild has several holy priests and that we do not have a shortage of them.

you left homreker off that list.. I know he was saying in the office the other day the same thing... that the guild has several holy priests and that we do not have a shortage of them.

I read that list as specifically tanks and healers who have left and/or come back and/or are hiatusing. Is Homreker taking a break? I thought his logons were pretty consistent. :)

my bad... I misunderstood the post.. I thought he was complaining about people who are complaining about shortages of healers... implying that there are plenty of healers here is the list.

(opens mouth inserts foot)

*cough yuk there was gum on my shoe

I was just whining to Agnes (and Kae) about this the other day. And I think anyone who believes we have a healer shortage needs a head examination like, STAT.

Are there certain TIMES that few healers are logging on, and people are missing out? Finding a healer never seems to be a problem when I am on.

Also though, I think this may be because at the time we had that app, Aro had just left to raid for a while, and Gleja hadn't come back yet, Zor was taking a break, and Hom was having connection issues. So while we HAD several priests, they were all out of commission at the same exact time, so Fren was often taking duty with Frocked and Val was being grabbed for mad shackles and that was about all we had, so that may have led to the perception that we are ridiculously short on priestage.

I know for a while Jafn was really busy and Jorack was raiding, so I was the only holy pally. That sucked and I am glad they are around more now. I mean, yes, sometimes I miss out on going somewhere because one of them is healing, but I'd rather that than have to go to Kara every single week because otherwise the group had to do maiden without a paladin, because OH GOD still having SO MUCH TROUBLE dealing with the new bop.

So I think really that it's cyclical. We have some times where the the healers are all just busy at the same time, and people are like HEY LYRANNE HEY HEY LYRANNE WILL YOU COME HEAL and she is all WTF NOT RESTO, and we have some times when people are all busy at the same time and people are like ING ING HEY ING HEY CAN YOU TANK and I am like I WILL KILL YOU WITH FIRE AND BRIMSTONE AND MARGARET THATCHER'S WOOLEN UNDERDRAWERS, but it usually cycles back around again.

My problem lately has been bad timing; I'll log on hoping to do a heroic, but no tanks are on, so I'll go do a load of laundry or something and come back half an hour later. By that time three groups are going and I'm all WTF? But that's just a timing thing. The other timing thing is that a lot of times, the heroics are going as an alternate thing for people who didn't get into Kara, so when that happens, a lot of times, I am in Kara. Now that Kara has badges, this does not make me as sad a panda as it used to.

I was kinda thinking the same thing when we first opened up guild recruitment again, but didn't say anything cause I didn't feel too strongly about it.

I agree with Stranger in that I think that our tank and healer shortage is definitely a perception on the part of the DPSers.

Its one thing to be online on a wednesday night and say "hey, lets run an instance... oh, theres 8 of us on, but no tank- we need more tanks!" but quite another to post a scheduled a run even a night or two in advance and get no tank sign-ups. I really don't think the latter happens very often at all.

What happens a LOT more, from my perspective at least, is that a group sign-up will pop on the forums, and by the time 3 or 4 tanks or healers that are looking for a group have checked it, they're already covered.

I think there are a lot of people NOT running instances because of this, but its harder to see because usually they just shrug and log off.

I guess I've kind of always had this feeling, but never really felt strong enough to voice it.

Now I always hate to bitch and not offer a solution, but I'm too tired after typing all this and I'm finally off of work for the next couple days, so I'm going to take a nap and think about this a little more. I think the solution is as simple as a little more organization, but like I said, I'll get back to that later...

I'm with Stranger and Brendar on this. Trying to get a run together out of the blue is always going to be a problem. If you'd like to run something by all means post a run, but don't be surprised if you try to get a group with short notice and can't find a tank or healer. No matter how you slice it there will always be more dps then tanks and healers combined, so be a little more patient and try to schedule your runs in advance.

From a DPS perspective, I'm more concerned about burning out the healers and tanks we do have than about not having enough. I know that several people who are specced for tanking get tells all the time, asking them to tank something. Maybe they don't want to tank. Maybe they just want to play an alt or go to bed or whatever. That doesn't happen so much with DPS since there are so many of us. And it probably specifically doesn't happen all that much with moonkins because we don't have one of the more critical CC methods. Nobody's going to send me a tell saying "Hey can you come to Slabs? We need a cyclone."

But during the Halloween event, when it became clear that I could heal Headless Horseman with no problem, it seemed like I was getting Headless Horseman tells allllllll the time. And if that were happening to me nonstop during the game, it would make me cry and I would probably roll a straight DPS class so people would leave me alone. Because sometimes people just want to play.

So. Love and respect your tanks and healers. And if someone in a hybrid class wants to respec to something that's neither tanking or healing, don't give them a hard time about it.

I think I am spoiled on this because I live with a tank and a healer, and now for the first time since I started playing they are not at my beck and call. "JAM ARO I WANT TO RUN RAMPARTS" "That's nice, dear, who's in your group?" "!!!"

That said, I usually never have trouble finding a full group if I give at least a little notice, or if I look on the forums; as I recall, the last time I went somewhere, we had to scrounge around for dps, leaving tank and healer twiddling their thumbs for a few minutes while we found one.

From my perspective, the situation seems to keep changing. Sometimes we have lots of healers available, sometimes a shortage. I know that unlike some of the other healers, I am rarely available to jump into an unplanned instance run. However, Kara runs have generally seemed to have more than enough healers, with the possible exception of the late night runs. I'm hoping that we will continue to be able to have 2 or even 3 groups every week, so all us healers will not be decked too much.

I have not had the problem of being asked to go to groups too much (perhaps I should take it personally;)); the Horseman event might have been a "special" situation. I am of course happy to help when I can, unfortunately it's not as much as I'd like!

So, I guess the upshot is that I'm on the fence about the number of healers in the guild.

I am a tank druid and once I am 70 I look forward to being able to help tank for you all ;)

We just have to remember that tanks and healers are doing what a lot of people can't stand doing. Let's be honest, everyone likes to put out tons and tons of damage but couldn't stand playing a healer or tank. Just be thankful that there are some people who actually enjoy doing these roles and we'll all be better for it. Another tip, when I'm on a run or raid I will whisper certain dps and healers and let them know they are doing an exceptional job, I've very rarely gotten any thanks for tanking an instance or raid. So next time you're on a run as dps remember to thank the people allowing you to stay alive and do your mad dps.

Edit: I'm not implying that I need a pat on the back everytime I do something, I don't. But this could go a long way for helping some of the up and coming tanks/healers that aren't confident in their abilities just yet.

I am going to put in my opinion, not because it is worth anything but because I am a post whore.
Anyway I am a druid tank, and really like to run instances. I have ran more since I have joined the guild than I have ever done up till then. I think I am getting better but still recognize I kind of suck as a tank. I am working on gear to help me hit the defense cap and more armor. Hopefully I can get into Arcatraz to finish up a quest that leads to great gloves and bracers then finish up my Kara attunement for the ring. I just feel bad when I cause wipes and always feel like handing out 10 G for repairs to everyone in the group after the run. I need to really focus on running the Steamvault and pretty much live there for a while to get enough rep for my earthwarden. Hopefully with gear upgrades it will help compensate for my play. I am kind of a work in progress tank!
I definitely don’t play as much as I would like but, I do play when I can. If I am on and can help out I will.

Shadian, you are FUCKING AWESOME, and omg, guys, Shadian solo-tanked Kara last night. I mean, Lyranne was there, but Lyranne is not tank-specced? And Ing was there, but Ing? Holy. So really the only other tank was KITTEH. And okay, KITTEH is truly awesome, but it was Kara. That is how mega Shadian is. Big props and whatnot yo.

Also Shadian took a moment to thank me in the middle of the Prince fight for a massive crit heal at just the right time and it made me smile.

Uh, I had something else to say about the actual topic, but I forgot. Oh. Right. Speaking from a healer perspective, I do think it's about timing. I have frequently tried to go on instances or get into groups, only to be told, 'Oh, don't worry about it, Val, we already have a healer.' And it's like, wait, I could...put on some dps gear! I could....hit things with my staff! I could tank! I could totally tank! Just let me play with you guys! Waaaaaaaa! I feel like somebody's kid brother trying to tag along with the cool kids.

We've got a lot of healers right now, and I think we also have a lot of tanks. There might be times when we don't have a lot of healers at, y'know, 11 pm on Monday night at a full moon, and suddenly it looks like there's a problem...but that's the case with any class. Surely we've all tried to schedule runs and gone, 'Dammit, we need a mage! Where are all our mages? We can't do this without crowd control and MYTEE EARTH-SHAKING DAMAGE!'. It happens.

Except with rogues. Nobody likes them.

LOL nice stranger... I thought it was those damn Paladins and their bubble, heal lay on hands that nobody likes

i know you edited your post, but I SHOWER YOU WITH PETTINGS ANYWAY

plus, i would LOVE to have a 70 healer. i like healing. i just hate leveling. i admit that i don't really want to tank, though :x

I think we all need to recognize that our shortages come in waves. And trying to pull a group at the last minute is always going to be harder than planning in advance. At the moment, I don't think there is a shortage of tanks or healers. There are times where people are just busy. For example, I did cancel a Kara run because of no healers (and ironically, there were 5 potential tanks signed up for that one!) But that is not necessarily the norm. We are not going to rush out and recruit any more people right now. I think we have plenty of everything.

TANKS - THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TANKING FOR US ALL THE FREAKIN' TIME

HEALERS - THANK YOU FOR KEEPING US ALIVE ALL THE FREAKIN' TIME

:D

I am going to put in my opinion, not because it is worth anything but because I am a post whore.
Anyway I am a druid tank, and really like to run instances. I have ran more since I have joined the guild than I have ever done up till then. I think I am getting better but still recognize I kind of suck as a tank. I am working on gear to help me hit the defense cap and more armor. Hopefully I can get into Arcatraz to finish up a quest that leads to great gloves and bracers then finish up my Kara attunement for the ring. I just feel bad when I cause wipes and always feel like handing out 10 G for repairs to everyone in the group after the run. I need to really focus on running the Steamvault and pretty much live there for a while to get enough rep for my earthwarden. Hopefully with gear upgrades it will help compensate for my play. I am kind of a work in progress tank!
I definitely don’t play as much as I would like but, I do play when I can. If I am on and can help out I will.

You're very close to the cap right now. Earthwarden is not a -huge- upgrade from Braxxis. I would suggest trying to farm rep for Keepers of Time to get this: http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29186. That will put you well over the cap, and you can start swapping out some gems or other items.

Good guide that I only recently found (it explains the enchants better than anywhere else I've seen, and also pointed out to me that you can put any color gem into any color slot, you just loose the slot bonus - the slot bonus might not be worth it): http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=442969657

As for feeling bad on a wipe, only feel bad if it's directly your fault. If someone else pulls aggro on a non-tauntable mob and you've done everything you can to build and maintain threat, don't feel bad. If a DPSer opens up before you've even hit the mob, don't feel bad. Tank mantra: It's your job to get the aggro, it's the group's job to let you keep it.

(BTW, hint for having fun fucking with the armory: Log out while shifted into bear.)

I am going to put in my opinion, not because it is worth anything but because I am a post whore.
Anyway I am a druid tank, and really like to run instances. I have ran more since I have joined the guild than I have ever done up till then. I think I am getting better but still recognize I kind of suck as a tank. I am working on gear to help me hit the defense cap and more armor. Hopefully I can get into Arcatraz to finish up a quest that leads to great gloves and bracers then finish up my Kara attunement for the ring. I just feel bad when I cause wipes and always feel like handing out 10 G for repairs to everyone in the group after the run. I need to really focus on running the Steamvault and pretty much live there for a while to get enough rep for my earthwarden. Hopefully with gear upgrades it will help compensate for my play. I am kind of a work in progress tank!
I definitely don’t play as much as I would like but, I do play when I can. If I am on and can help out I will.


The bracers you have are pretty much your best option for tanking. There is a new badge reward that is one of the only upgrades. Run Durnholde until you get the ring off of the first boss, you'll also get Keepers of Time rep in the process.

I really don't have a whole lot to say other than "I agree". It can get a little frustrating sometimes to keep putting your hat into the ring, only to have been the third or fourth tank to do so. It's hard to see a tank shortage at that point and even harder to be told of a tank shortage. </whine>

All that said, I love to tank and will usually jump in if asked (unless you're not in the guild and want me to tank a heroic). It's -fun- to me, even if sometimes boring. "What, you just stand there and get beat on?" (I assure you that there's a lot more to it than that...)

Like Shadian, I'm not looking for pats on the back. I'm not a delicate little snowflake. I'm mostly just chiming in as a tank here.

Certainly the grass is always greener on the other side. I've pondered a respec to Boomkin and thought long and hard about it. The whole reason I considered it was because I didn't (and still don't) see a tank shortage. But, meh, I'm rambling and whining now.

Well from my perspective I have to agree wholeheartly. I had come back to WOW and pretty much powerlevled Widget to 70 becasue there was constant complaints in the forums of no tanks and guild runs being cancelled due to that.

So I hit 70, speced prot, worked on my gear in pugs and spent about four weeks looking for a guild group to tank. I found that there was an overabundance of druids taking the tank spots with the occasional paladin. I was basicly told that Druids were more desirable/better tanks for the runs that were being done. I decided to level my Warlock with the hope that someone somewhere would need my Warrior for tanking. In that time I wound up tanking two maybe three times, most of you know how much time I play so as a percentage that's pretty slim.

I'm now in Tabula Rasa having a blast with my WOW account on hold for the time being. My experience may have just been my own but it was how I saw it.

Widget

I do think that was partly a timing issue too, I kept looking for a group WITH WIDGET because he was one of my favorite tanks back in the day (never saw anyone else hold the butcher still), but he played later and I played earlier. BOO.

So I do think that we partially just have a bottleneck in two ways:

1.) People (and I am one of them) forget to schedule runs, so we just hop on and hope to get into whatever is going. This seldom works unless the right combination of other people did the same thing. The people who scheduled and signed up for something are always going to do that first, because... duh. It's nice to have someone page you and ask you specifically to go on a run, but realistically, a lot of times even if they do need a healer, they don't want to bother you, since we just bitched a whole lot about sometimes wanting a break and questing and bed. Cut them some slack: ask them.

2.) Schedules - they suck. We are many busy adults, with stuff to do and dinner to cook and different time zones and baby manatees to save with heads of lettuce and hazmat suits, and all manner of other things to juggle. Sometimes you will go and do laundry when the tanks show up. They will see no healers and go do laundry just as you return. This is not really anyone's fault. It just happens.

1.) People (and I am one of them) forget to schedule runs, so we just hop on and hope to get into whatever is going.

OMG guilty on this one. I am always so awkward about scheduling runs, because I always feel like people are then going to rely on me to do stuff like be there on time, and be responsible, and a dear friend has yelled at me so many times about how if you sign up for something, it should be the BE ALL AND END ALL OF EVERYTHING because you can't let people down, so I...don't sign up for things. Because I don't want people to hate me if, y'know, I'd rather go out to dinner with my friends. So the end result is that I don't get to go on a lot of things.

Someday I'll find this mythical 'happy medium' that people keep talking about.

I hear you, I have gotten bad about it lately too. <3 I used to be CAPTAIN SCHEDULE, but now I am like, Sally Spontaneous or something.

I think it is not so much that schedulers want signing up to the be all end all, they just don't want to disappoint someone who gets to play WoW ONLY one day a week, like say the Don, who has to work a lot lately.

It's hard, because part of the reason many of us joined a casual guild is because we didn't WANT to make any commitment toward a video game - HAPPY GAME TIME - but the reason many others joined a casual guild is that they have only one or two days to play WoW. So for those people, if they miss out on a SV run they wanted, the one day they had for playing was wasted, and they are sad. This I understand, because that was me when I was in Evita.

Personally, Stranger, I think the world should just acknowledge that it revolves around us, and everyone would be happier. *Princess hair toss*

*Princess hair toss*

haha. I love doing instances but this week I am so under the weather I am like blah. Just leveling an alt when I don't feel like total crap