All I know is when I started in VS I could go on an instance run and not feel like I do now.


What exact way would you like to feel that you think would work?

As far as 5 man groups go, they are being scheduled quite often (If there is ever a run that someone needs they are welcome to post or ask one of us to post for them) and I'd like to think that there isn't any pressure on performance for them.

When it comes to the 10 man and 25 man content the attitude may be a little different, yes. Those places are usually not easy for us. Sometimes we can walk through Kara with a strong group, but recently (Especially the early night people), we've still been having some trouble. Now I do my best to make the runs not about who's doing more dps than who, or who's healing faster than who, but as a raid leader its something that we have to be aware of.

People in this guild enjoy the game for many different reasons. But one thing I'm pretty sure of is that no one enjoys wiping over and over on the same content that we've already been through numerous times before. If I'm wrong about that, then I'm sorry to make an assumption. The truth is that if there weren't a good portion of people that were very serious about performing well, we will continue to beat our heads against walls and not get anywhere. If there is someone that is making you feel like you don't belong then that is something we should deal with in PMs or sit down and work something out on vent. But if you think that everyone else is focused on how well they're doing in a place like Kara or ZA.... consider what it would be like if no one was at all.

Perhaps its not the guild that you don't enjoy, but the requirements to successfully navigate raiding content. Not everyone in the guild enjoys raiding... and no one is required to raid to be in the guild.

Maybe its time for another guild event? (I know its time... I just hope I have enough time to work on one!)

As far as breaking up groups into progressive and non progressive runs... if people wanted to try it I suppose we could but I don't see it helping morale much. We've been having trouble scraping together a full group for the early runs as it is. I think that it would further separate the people that want to progress and the people that want to hang out with the people that want to progress but would really not like to feel pressure about the way they play.

Let me address this "uberism" thing for a second, even though Fox has already summed up my feelings. But this is where I stand right now: We need people who care about this stuff. You don't ALL have to care about it, but we need people who will push us a little if we could do better. Especially in the raids. And as for damage meters, I've been on many many Kara runs and most of the talk about the dmg meters is coming from friends who are joking around about it (ex. Khros's pals trying to get him BELOW the number 1 spot...like Plas said, "self-deprecating" in nature). I think I have been on ONE run where someone was all like "Holy shit! I'm at the top of the meter!" but by no means is it every run.
And yes, the RLs pay attention to dps. Not because they want to make people feel bad, but because if there is a problem in the raid and we aren't doing as well as we should be doing, it's their job to figure out why. If you have a class in there who should be doing more dmg and isn't, that person just needs some more guidance. It's not about So and So is Awesome and Uber and This Other Person Is Not. It's just something that has to be done once in awhile.
As for 5-mans, there still has to be Some sort of strategy or even advice going around if people need it because no one wants to spend 5 hours in S-Labs.
Everyone, if someone gives you advice in this game, it is not about Uberism. Okay? Sometimes people Really Just Want To Help. And these people trying to help us are nice and not scary jerks who think we suck. I mean, Fren has given me some Awesome advice in the past for my mage and I didn't even think I NEEDED to listen to him, but once I got past the fact that he was new and knew more about mages than me and chilled out my ego and LISTENED to him, I was very happy with my character. FWIW.

Like I said, it is probably just me and being overly sensitive.

I see nothing wrong with striving to be better, I myself try to better my characters, work hard on improving my gear and game play. I continually watch how others play and see if there is something I can be doing better. It is quite possibly my own frustration with not being able to excel the way I want to.

I love VS and what we stand for, I love the diversity of our players and knowing that I can do both casual and end game runs. I love knowing that if I need and want advice that it is always there for me.

That being said, my original post in regards to this was because I was frustrated. It was never directed at anyone person, or else I would have taken it up privately. Sorry for causing drama, it was unintentional. I should work on not writing posts when I am tired and emotional.

huh? sorry all I saw was bouncing boobies.

You aren't causing drama, Afk. I'm very interested in the opinions of the guildies and you shouldn't think that you have to keep your mouth shut if you have a concern.

huh? sorry all I saw was bouncing boobies.

As far as breaking up groups into progressive and non progressive runs... if people wanted to try it I suppose we could but I don't see it helping morale much. We've been having trouble scraping together a full group for the early runs as it is. I think that it would further separate the people that want to progress and the people that want to hang out with the people that want to progress but would really not like to feel pressure about the way they play.

Oh, I certainly didn't intend to imply that we should start having Kara runs where only people interested in progressive runs could attend -- we, as a guild, have never had an 'exclusive' attitude, and I hope we never do. We're not That Kind Of Guild.

My suggestion was to have runs that were stated, ahead of time, to be either progressive or regular. On a regular run, the atmosphere would be more laid back; people could bring alts for the experience, practice, and gear; damage meters and WWS wouldn't be posted; and there'd be less stress over how far the instance got cleared. On the other hand, on a progressive run, those attending would be expected to bring characters who were well-geared and fully enchanted; the focus would be on completing the entire instance (or at least getting as far as possible); WWS would be posted; and maybe we could consider going some new places or taking on some new challenges.

Additionally, I'm certainly not suggesting -- ever!!! -- that 'progressive' runs would be all work and no play. Again, we're not That Kind Of Guild. We always do things better with a sense of humor. I'm just saying that if a run is marked as progressive, there should be more expectation of buckling down -- for instance, sorry, I wouldn't be able to take Elath on a progressive run, she's woefully geared for it. I could, however, take Val and have a blast. I could take Elath on a regular run and not stress out about it.

There's no reason why we should leave anyone out or leave anyone behind. Part of the reason we're such a good guild is because we don't leave people behind. But this doesn't also mean leaving the entire guild behind just because we don't want to upset anybody; with a little organization, I'm sure we're capable of progressing without sacrificing our sense of fun.

Damn right, Raps, my starshards will pwn you.

There's no reason why we should leave anyone out or leave anyone behind.

I take exception to that statement...I work very goddamn hard at being left behind.

I have made it my singular purpose in this guild to be the member that other guilds point at

and mutter "wtf were they thinking?"

Mr. The Hand

I take exception to that statement...I work very goddamn hard at being left behind.

I have made it my singular purpose in this guild to be the member that other guilds point at

and mutter "wtf were they thinking?"

Mr. The Hand

I thought that was me! Damn, can't be #1 at anything!

I think the slowdown in runs is not a bad sign just simply people working on skills, farming, checking out the new content/dailys and such. I know thats what Ive been doing.

The only time(s) I've felt bad in any of the VS runs is when we are in the middle of discussing stragedy and I suddenly shoot an arrow at the big bosses face. DOH! Even then all I've heard is "What tha...alright, who was that? You owe everyone a warp burger and a beer." then chuckles. Oh and Euls sighing. :)

All debating aside... after all this I really started looking at my mana consumption and it seem I'm actually more effective after 2.4

Being my lucky night in Kara on Friday I also picked up some new gear with mana regen and I used some AP/manna regen gems for socketing and I don't seem to have any issues at all

As for my 2¢ on Damage meters…

I never see it as a race or anything. Personally I like to use them so I can monitor and maximize my DPS. Speaking of which! I need a new DM… suggestions anyone?

Speaking of which! I need a new DM… suggestions anyone?

Since DamageMeters does not look like it will be updated any time soon, I've started using Recount. That seems good enough, even though I liked DamageMeter's interface better.

I also had to move to Recount when SWStats updates were late in coming. I'm still learning my way around it and it's generally too big for me, but for the most part it does what I need it to. And the pie charts are really cool.

In related news, has anyone figured out a way to make the new combat log not be insane and just completely fucking suck? I'm so sad without it.

I take exception to that statement...I work very goddamn hard at being left behind.
/e looks up from flowerpicking.

/e looks around in confusion.

/e goes back to flowerpicking.

I thought I would toss in a comment there - being one of those "damage guys".

There are obviously a lot of folks in the guild interested in different things. I think the leadership has done well to try and accomodate just about everyone. We have tried some "totally laid back" Kara type runs and they struggle quite a bit more than our runs where we make sure some of the top performers are mixed-in with the more casual folks. That is the best overall formula for progression and fun.

I don't think you will ever get people to stop looking at meters. They won't stop talking about them either. But from my personal experience everyone has been really good about keeping the competitive portion of it private.

It is unfortunate that you have elected not to play for such a long time because of this. I know I have sought you out to rejoin our runs. Your contributions have always been valued.

I believe the thing to remember in all this is what Agnes brought up. There are proper channels in place for venting your concerns with the guild. If you do not use these channels it only causes additional drama when feelings start exploding onto the forums. If someone has a problem, doesn't log in and doesn't let the officers know, then how will anything ever get resolved? The guild has gone through some changes lately, for good or bad we still have a damn fine guild here. With the input from everyone we can try to strike a balance here but we need that input to make sure everyone's needs are addressed. Let's all step back, take a deep breath and try to come together again for some fun.

GROUP HUG!

/vomits

I have like 20 pictures of Eules and I HUGGING. :D :D

Screenshot or it didn't happen.

Screenshot or it didn't happen.
I also have numerous pics of Euls hugging various guildies. Like... non-stop hugging.

She is a hug machine.

I apologize for drama, and voicing my concern the wrong way. Obviously I am not very good at communication in the written form.

Enough said...a woman should never post on forums when she is pms'ing and has no chocolate in the house.

Enough said...a woman should never post on forums when she is pms'ing and has no chocolate in the house.

Well that's just a given! LOL!
I lock myself inside for the good of society. :D

LIARS! do not listen to this PROPAGANDA! :|

As Sapph said GROUP HUG! :D

WARLOCK CANDY FOR EVERYONE! :p


New Rule

Anyone Talking about dps, dmg meters, Maxing out Gear, or other "leet" topics. Must remove their pants before doing so, to put the conversation in the proper context and to make sure everyone knows how serious we are! If you are already pantless then you may have to look at getting some sort of Chicken Hat!