If I get some time tonight, I'll put my genius to work for you all and we'll see what I poop out.

Give it a shot for a bit and see how it goes. If things need tweaking, they can be tweaked.

Tweaking is fun...

See this is why we can't have nice things.

We go out and look around for hours at the mall and we come back and show it to the family. What do you do? You poop on it and throw it at the wall. ;)

Here's the main thing.... we can lead as much as we want in our old app but people will still repeat themselves over and over. We're pretty much just asking the same four questions in the old app in several funny (we think) ways.

I considered adding "Your questions should entertain us or you ain't gettin' in" before the essay questions but it's redundant. If the applicant can't see from the previous sections that they need to put a little effort in then we know right away they ain't getting in.

And why give people a chance to lie to us anyway? The question about how will you deal with your problems only has one right answer.... and no one in their right mind would say something else trying to get into a guild. You really want to read a paragraph answer of bullshit when you know it's not what they'll do when they actually have an issue in the guild?

Like Sapph and Lux said, those sections are not to find out what they think. They're to tell them what we don't want. And if they don't get it.... it'll be obvious right away in their long answers.

First of all, let me say "Good job, Officers! NICE DPS"! I really like the new app and its obvious a lot of thought went into it.

Question, though: If this is going to be made into a form app, then won't that take some of the posting time out of the equation?

If you want to know the truth, I understood some of the T/F questions as not needing explanation. But a couple of them would be great if we gave a chance to add something to them. Maybe we limit the number of words, "Explain why in 30 words or less" or characters, give them 140 characters like a tweet.

I totally agree with Hom on this one. A short field at the end of each multiple choice question would give them a chance to insert /gchat sentence length responses. As I was reading these questions, the possibilities for quick, witty repartee came to mind and I'd like to see that from our prospects.

But I think Fren makes the best point, and that is- we can tweak it later. Lets see what some of the apps coming in look like in this new format.

Hmmmm when you say it like that it does sound like a pretty good idea.

Guess it's all in the delivery :P

Pssssh. Delivery Schlongdivery. If you don't speak asshole, then you weren't worth talking to in the first place.

The work done on the new app is witty and well thought out. The one issue that might arise, is we lose a good applicant becuase he decided to be funny with the T/F and M/C questions without being able to explain. I would have answered some of those questions in smart ass fashion because of the way they were worded.

I got started on the app form tonight. I should have it done by tomorrow.

How about this, we could create guidelines to accompany questions so that we can solicit an answer out of the person and at the same time clearly let them know what shit we will not tolerate with a "bad fit/look elsewhere" section:

So for example:

"Why do you play WoW?
{text field}

Bad fit:
- Loot whore/l33t meat
- To find hot chicks whose windows I can look through
- I need to find an excuse for that jar of pee beside my computer desk"

This way the applicant clearly knows what will lead to tears and can decide if we're a good family for him/her.

With guidelines we do not leave them guessing if there is such a thing as TMI and at the same time show them we value their feedback by allowing them to provide their own answer.

BTW, I'm not pooping on the application and throwing it against the wall. I am just decorating it a bit and placing it nicely on the mantlepiece.

Oh, and Pilsner, about paladins.. been there.. GalaHAD him.

A tiny guild chat-length line, I can deal with.

I think the new app is fine the way it is. I don't think getting overly complicated is going to make a difference. Some people will get in that are bad fits and we'll part ways. The new app is supposed to be fun. anyone can lie or come across one way in written form and be completely different on guild chat. I say congratulate the producers on the hard work they did and leave it at that. Because in the end it'll be the probation period that'll determine if they stay.

One other thing to keep in mind is that most people applying are friends and family. Which usually get in regardless thus making the probation period the biggest part of the getting to know you process.

For multiple choice, perhaps we can add one more "blank" answer for them to fill in.

Sure. Like "Other" and then have them fill in a blank. That could be interesting.

You guys, I don't want you to think that you're completely powerless here because we've already decided we like our application. On the contrary, you will have the final say on who will be stay, go, or remain in limbo until they go bonkers when it comes to our Gaining Reputation with 3 Guildies idea. Nobody has even mentioned what they think of that particular idea and to me, that's way more huge than changing around an application.

So instead of people coming to us and being like "How did so and so ever get in the guild? He/she's a giant weirdo!" the accountability will be yours.

...anyone can lie or come across one way in written form and be completely different on guild chat...in the end it'll be the probation period that'll determine if they stay.


What he said =)

I like the new format as some of the suggestions giving as well.

As mentioned a few times, if it needs to be tweaked, then it can be tweaked but otherwise my compliments to the Producers.

I like the new app.

Dont know if it is too late for suggestion but it would be funny to have one multiple choice question with terribly bad choices or a possible suggestion for future app. Again this question doesn't have to count towards the original app since we will be forcing the applicant to make bad choice.

An example would be something like this:

You are in need of gold for your Epic flying mount training. You will:

(a) Spam guild chat asking for gold until some one gives it.
(b) Ninja the guild bank to sell the items.
(c) Whine to guild members to buy your worthless shit at high prices.
(d) Borrow gold from a guild mate, promising to return it in a month with no intention of doing so.

Sure. Like "Other" and then have them fill in a blank. That could be interesting.

You guys, I don't want you to think that you're completely powerless here because we've already decided we like our application. On the contrary, you will have the final say on who will be stay, go, or remain in limbo until they go bonkers when it comes to our Gaining Reputation with 3 Guildies idea. Nobody has even mentioned what they think of that particular idea and to me, that's way more huge than changing around an application.

So instead of people coming to us and being like "How did so and so ever get in the guild? He/she's a giant weirdo!" the accountability will be yours.

Well, I'm not complaining about this because it's the only part of the application process I really agree with. :)

I think the new application is entirely too dumbed down, and I kept my mouth shut about it until now because frankly - the online app really doesn't matter. People are going to check whatever checkbox and write whatever answer they think we want to hear.

Now having to gain rep with 3 guild members to decide your fate in VS? Fantabulous!

The only way you're really going to get to know any person is by spending some time with them. This new process (I think) is going to accomplish two things:
1) It is going to weed out the "riff-raff" (as Xan so succintly put it) because it will be our responsibility to get to know these people.
2) Good people whose writing skills would have been completely butchered by the old app are going to get a fair chance to shine.

And I mentioned point 2 because Xan and I have a couple of very close friends who have been intimidated by the old app simply due to their lack of writing skills. They'd be a great fit to our group (Xan and I have been gaming with one of the two for at least 5 years now), but they didn't have the same educational opportunities as some of the rest of us.

Oh, and have I mentioned today how much I appreciate being part of the VS family? *snerk*

I like the producer's humor added to the app. I applaud the hard work you guys put into it. To me, most people who applied got in the guild anyway, no matter what we said on their thread, (was anyone actually denied?) so the app is not a big issue. The old app allowed more room for personalized humor, but if this makes the job of our officers easier then that's good enough for me. I like the grinding rep idea, it forces new people to get to know us and be active in the guild.

I will say that actually reading the new apps will be less entertaining and I will truly miss the opportunity to enjoy the creative writing skills of some of our applicants. But as was discussed, if we find this new app in need of tweaking, then it can be done.

Frolic, I have no idea what you said, because my eyes kept being drawn to your new avatar! EVIL!

Oh, as for the app process, seems good to me, the probation period is key, and I like the new process. Go fer it!

Frolic, that new avatar is evil.
The new app works for me.... go look at my original app to see what a crap app looks like. I only got in cause Raeb and Aditu were members.... I mean,hell I wouldn't have approved me based on the app.

As has been said earlier, the thing can always be tweaked....

SM

What about filling out the app (old or new) with all the answers to people we want to aviod and say something like if this is you, we are not for you, then maybe thye could get a hint?

As we are always creative with our avatars maybe put a question to the effect of name your last avatar and why that might give us some input into the person without them having to write a book.

...Gaining Reputation with 3 Guildies idea. Nobody has even mentioned what they think of that particular idea and to me, that's way more huge than changing around an application.

So instead of people coming to us and being like "How did so and so ever get in the guild? He/she's a giant weirdo!" the accountability will be yours.

Actually, I didn't mention that for the opposite reason Abigayle didn't -- I'm pretty nonplussed about it, and I didn't want to be my normal Pompous Ass self all over your thread. But y'know, since you asked.

As Shadian mentioned, most of the people who apply are friends and family. So...there's at least one Reputation that's a given. Most of the applications I've seen come from people who are friends with more than one person, or who at least know someone in the guild who, er, has other friends in the guild. So that's at least two Reputations that are probably a given. Maybe even three.

So. We're going from a thorough vetting of an application that, at best, gave an opportunity for the whole guild to see a potential new guildmate's personality...to an application that offers the guild as a whole extremely little opportunity to see the new guildmate's personality, and potentially allows three people the applicant already knows in the guild to vote him in.

I don't like that. I don't see what was so broken about our old application process that we have to take the decision out of the hands of the guild as a whole and potentially let a couple of buddies give the thumbs-up to whoever they want.

It's been reiterated -- over and over -- that this is a done deal, so I guess we'll wait and see how it turns out and hope for the best. I just think this is a plan with some inherent problems, and I don't think anyone's told us what was wrong with the old way that necessitated this drastic -- and flawed -- change.

O noes drama!

The POINT of the T/F and multible choice questions is not so much that we're really trying to get a truthful, thought-provoking answer from them but to passively point out the shit that we've had to deal with that we better not see from the applicant (as far as the obviously negative choices...).

1. My main goals in game are:

(e) To get a Proto-Drake and go afk at Krasus' landing.

FYI, I'm totally going to do this. I hope it isn't a dealbreaker. :D

I think the line for a smart ass answer or explanation is key there. If I was presented with that, there is no way in hell I would have made it because I couldn't have resisted some of those answers, and from what I have seen so far neither could a good number of you.

I like the idea of the approval process, but I would like to make one suggestion. Since most people are friends or family of more than one member, only let one of those 3 votes be automatic. So friends/family only have to camp 2 members, but no less.

Now I am going to put my daughter to bed so I can spam gchat about not being able to afford my wings.