I don't know what you meant by "we've had many younguns in our guild before" because basically, it was Shiek (when he joined he was 16 and stayed with us for a few years) who we didn't know was that young when he joined...then there was Darkex who was Ben's brother who was miles more mature than Ben and we figured if he hung out with BEN then he's probably heard everything...and then there was Litesong who I was totally OPPOSED to joining because she was soooo young and I didn't want to censor myself in guild chat and it's a drag to feel like you have to. So I count 3. And like I said, if we can put something on the app to deter kids from joining, let's do that. Can we do that?

I wish you'd just take the age off the app and never ask. Don't ask, don't tell. It's not our business. If he hadn't felt required to say he was fifteen, would we have this drama? No. (Christ, don't ask what gender they are, either. If they join vent, you know. If they don't and present themselves elsewise, what does it hurt?)

What if some really great thirty year-old who's all awesome and uber joins and everything is wonderful and fantastic and she totally fits and jokes around and magically gets everyone their pants all at once except one day, she says 'It makes me really unfortable when you take the Lord's name in vain.' What do we do with that?

...uh...where did that Doberman go...

I just went with the majority here. I voted Yes so don't shoot me. :P


It was a hard vote, and nobody is going to shoot you. GAH! Except, I will shoot you if you ask Dits to tank again. I totally will do that.

The Doberman is more than willing to tell this young boy that we are not the guild for him due to our adult content. I'm a parent. I can do this.

Actually I was referring to the "awesome 30-yr-old gaming woman who won't let us talk bad about jesus" that Aro referred to.

I think we will take the gender and age question off of the app.

and perhaps the "15" was a typo? ...we could pretend it was.

I enjoy, immensly, going to parades and Chucky Cheese's and screaming obsceneties near young children while watching their mother's nasty looks and feeble attempts to cover their ears.

I never understood the issue with cursing anyway, it's not the WORD its the INTENT. Are you a better person because when you dropped your burrito on your floor you said 'fiddle sticks' instead of 'GOD DAMN MOTHER FUCKER'? Probably not, but I have anger issues.

Actually I was referring to the "awesome 30-yr-old gaming woman who won't let us talk bad about jesus" that Aro referred to.


Still... if needed, it's been said. And I would not be so sweet with the Jesus lady, just FYI. 8)

I'm serious, though. I really want an answer to this.

Brown and Val are not comfortable talking about sex in front of someone who had the honesty to admit that he was under the age of majority in the United States.

So let me take this out of the realm of theory and into specifics: I am not comfortable talking about politics. I would rather no one ever discussed their political views with me, EVER.

Do you have to censor yourselves for my personal comfort level?

Nope, because it's not a mandatory position that you stay and listen to us. It's your choice to leave, so it's your responsibility.

In my opinion. You could ASK that we not talk, but shouldn't expect it. Unless it's your husband and then you can just smack him and demand.

Today's Penny Arcade comic is oddly relevant.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic

HEE! nice.

Today's Penny Arcade comic is oddly relevant.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic


No shit! That's kind of creepy!

<sigh> After reading arguements of Brown & Val my adult side is taking over and I'm going to pull my vote. I know if someone was saying this kinda shit around my daughter in public I would be in a jail cell a 1/2 hour later.

Sheri & Torrin do have a good points though, that it's not mandatory for someone to stay and listen to us and if they are offended - there's the door. I know 15 year old boys in South Philly talk way dirtier then anyone ~~~and I mean anyone~~~ in this guild.lol But I know I myself would be uncorfortable talking like this infront of a young girl.

I'm not going to recast my vote, I'm fine with whatever decision is made. Since I can crit guild chat for 9500 dmg, if things get out of hand and there's a youngin' on, I'll just start talking. :D

No, Gran, my argument is that I do not understand the need to parent everyone else's children; that's what I'm trying to get explanatory help on. Don't put me in that list, or I'll have to rewrite everything I've written to make myself clearer. XD

No, Gran, my argument is that I do not understand the need to parent everyone else's children; that's what I'm trying to get explanatory help on. Don't put me in that list, or I'll have to rewrite everything I've written to make myself clearer. XD


Modified baby! :P

No worries, I'll parent all these kids. More smokin blunts and fuckin bitches for everyone.

The woman who has a problem with me taking the lords name in vain can leave, this isnt the place for them then. There are Jesus loving guilds out there so go join one. I am an equal opportunity offender whether you believe in jesus or mohammad your a target.

Im sure many of you know, the 15 year old in question was talking about porn and slappin bitches so I dont really think there is a problem here. Now if the kid was 8 years old and exposed to this type of talk then it would be completely inappropriate. I believe in some sort of sanctity of preserving the innocence of youth. Dont be expose little kids to the things that they do not need to be exposed to.

I am not suggesting anyone parent anyones kids. All I said was that *I* was going to watch *MY* use of language and topics now that a minor is in the guild.

Frankly, I don't care if the kid was talking about porn, bitches, pimpin', or whatever. That's great. So he knows a few words from MTV and the internet. It doesn't mean that I'm going to continue supporting that behavior by joking with him about it.

I don't know this kid. I don't know what he's like. I don't know his maturity level. Even if I did, and he was the most mature tard on this Earth, I still wouldn't joke about most of the shit I've joked about in guild chat. Why?

I've watched my young students, family members, and friends kids all slowly lose their innocence over the course of time. That's one of the things that life does, it slowly erodes the innocence of children. This kid, or any kid, will lose their innocence soon enough and have to enter the REALLY REAL world of adulthood. It's a slow (hopefully) process that I don't want to speed up at all by potentially exposing this kid to things he might not have been exposed to had he not read something I wrote in guild chat.

I don't know him to be certain what I wrote would corrupt him. To do that I would have to spend a fuckton of time with the kid. Why would I want to do that when all I want to do is beat the shit out of demons?

EDIT TO ADD: I make a distinction between what is appropriate for a kid and what is appropriate for an adult. I don't say any of the stuff I say on guild chat to any of my students, nieces/nephews, or friend's kids. I sure as shit am not going to say it to a kid I know nothing about.

My problem with it -- which Killian is fixing by taking age off the application, thank you -- is that it's like Schroedinger's cat: you don't worry about being a corrupting influence on a teenager if you don't know they're a teenager.

Val, what you say makes sense, though I still disagree with the generalization that everyone under eighteen must be sheltered and protected. I remember being fifteen. I remember being eighteen. I remember being twenty-one. Nowhere was there some wall I passed, door I opened, or barrier I crossed when suddenly such-and-thing was 'okay' or 'appropriate.'

...Really, I guess what I'm trying to say is that as a generalization, I .... dislike generalizations.

Okay, posting my thoughts briefly on this, and I am going to avoid some of the subjects touched, because I agree with many of the points made.

I think it's a great idea to remove both the age and gender questions from the app, and that will help us going forward.

With regard to this issue coming up again in the future, I wonder if we should perhaps go back to an earlier thread and add yet more questions to the application, questions geared towards learning more about a person based on how they answer, such as:

Do you feel comfortable with adult oriented conversations, humor, jokes, etc?

Do you like gerbils?



Just some kind of questioning to give us answers to go by. I thought about getting a bit more crass and putting a suggestion like "Do you feel that Jesus was guiding your toon when a purple drops while farming?" but that might be going a bit too far. :)

Well then, we're going to have to agree to disagree. I think the age question on the application is a valid way of weeding out the majority of speds who might apply, get into guild chat, and spam "can I have 10 silver plz?????"

I didn't suggest that anyone under the age of 18 be protected and sheltered. I'm saying that they'll experience enough (which is a GOOD thing) during the normal course of their lives that will take them from childhood to adulthood fast enough as it is. I don't want to be a factor contributing to that demise any faster than it will occur naturally.

I don't know the kid. I don't want to know the kid. He's 15 for fuck's sake. What am I going to talk with him about? I know smart, witty, intelligent, insightful, and "old soul" kids of his age. I teach some of them. For everything that they are, they are still fifteen year old fucktards. Nothing will change that until they are 16, 17, and 18 year old fucktards.

Even at 18 they will probably still be fucktards, but hopefully by that point they'll be less fucktarded than they were 3 years prior. Maybe by that time they'll have something more profound to think about than Fiddy's candy shop.

Hopefully by 21 they'll have had some more experiences, more responsibilities, more TRIALS and CHALLENGES in their lives to start molding them into being real human-beings and not some pale reflection of a media created image. Sure, it can happen younger but finding that out in somebody is FAR TOO MUCH effort for me to put into a goddamn game.

Oh, and let me just add that being "fucktarded" is a natural state and not a "bad thing." It's just a point in the process of maturing.

Okay, could we not ask the age but emphasize that we would prefer only adults applied? So it would be like a given?

Everyone is welcome to their opinion, but as I stated in the other thread, my vote will always be no for this. <Aro turn away> I am a right-wing conservative type <ok Aro, you can read on> and also a new parent. Perhaps I am nieve, but I would hope that the various chat which goes on is not something a 15yr old would be exposed to. My feeling is that childhood innocence should be protected as long as possible. Not to an extreme, but some things just go to far. I'd have to admit that some of my innocence has been lost to guild chat but I am an adult and that was my choice. I could have lived a happy life not knowing terms like poopsock and I won't even begin to discuss Val...

I will agree to disagree, because I just can't figure out a way to voice my issues in a clear or even just partially coherent manner.

Once upon a time, I was that fifteen year-old at the grownups' table, because I couldn't deal with my own peer group. I guess it just bothers me that I can't illustrate that it is possible to be in that situation, and it is possible to relate effectively even with that age difference involved. That's why I don't want to have to ask someone's age, because I would've lied if I'd had to, and that would've sucked.