Hm. That's hard to say, because if the token drops first - like if Ing got her gloves from the Curator, and beat out Bren for them, and then also something dropped from Aran that Bren and I could use, I feel that it's unfair for me to roll against him AFTER, when I already GOT a setpiece and got my phat returnz from that run.

But, on the other hand, I don't want people to NOT roll on something that dropped from like, the Maiden, that they could really, really use, because they are afraid if they do and win, they will lose the chance to roll for HAT in the future, when that might be the last time they see HAT in a v. long time due to the factors Viraj mentions.

Is it just an order thing? If your tier token drops and you win it, you get kicked in the head if you try and roll for anything else. But if you already won something and your tier token drops later, you can still roll.

We had a prime example of this in Kara the other night, the Lock glove piece dropped as well as an awesome staff. Gyb was torn between rolling on the staff or rolling on the glove set. I misunderstood from "old" runs where he should be able to roll on his glove set regardless of if he won the staff or not! In the end he rolled on the staff and won it (as it was the first item up for rolls) and then was told he could not roll on the set piece. I think this rule needs to be clarified! Or at the very least, if a set peice drops always roll on it first so that the party members can have a chance on it before choosing to roll on the second item if it is good for them as well.

Does this make any sense?

I like Afk's suggestion of rolling on tier piece first, THEN the other loots.

Personally I think tier pieces should not fall into the same catagory as one epix per run. Next thing you know we will be sharding items that could be used because noone wants to roll on them in the anticipation that their set piece might drop.

I think that is a good suggestion and would help a lot, because honestly, MOST of our people, if they won a set piece, would pass on other things just to be nice.

I just don't want this to create a loophole where, were I feeling really terribly cranky one night, I could screw Bren out of tons of stuff by being all, "Oh, glove token dropped! I'm rolling and it doesn't count because it's a set piece! Oh, hat token also dropped! Rolling and it doesn't count! Oh, prince ALSO dropped that sweet mace. ROLLING BECAUSE THE OTHER TWO DIDN'T COUNT."

This would potentially leave me with three purples from the same run and Bren with dick. Assuming my dice were not also feeling terribly cranky.

Now, I know and y'all know that I would rather eat glass than do this, and I can't think of anyone in the guild who doesn't feel the same way. We are more likely to fight over who has to take it like those little gophers from Bugs Bunny all "Oh no no no, after YOU." But, I also don't want to get a rule in place that would allow me to justify doing it IF I DID all, "But that's what the rules say WHY ARE YOU MAD?" Because of course he would be mad, I got three things and he got dick.

It's kind of murky, because sometimes, you get spectacular bad luck with drops, and on EVERY BOSS, you get purples that are, while good, sidegrades for everyone in the group - at best - and then everyone shuffles their feet and mumbles that they'd roll on it for secondary gear or PvP or whatever. And then the Curator, or the Prince, and the tokens drop, and then WAUGH GLOVES or WAUGH HAT, and cue the "You already got a purple" "BUT IT WAS A SIDEGRADE, I DIDN'T MEAN IT".

Loot is always so thorny; there are so many layers of "who can put this to best use" and "well, does it look as pretty as my other hat" and "did I already get a purple? yes but that was last night, it's not still the same run" and whatever.

I remember in Cereal's PUG (ah, Cereal PUGs...), the general rules were

1) 1 purple per run
2) If no one other than you rolls on the item, it doesn't count as your 1 purple per run.
3) If a class item drops, and everyone in that class has gotten something, then they can all roll. (This mostly worked with items that were bound to a single class, not the three-class tokens we have now).

So, in Ing's case, I assume that both Bren & she would roll on the gloves. Say Ing rolls wins it, and she has her one purple per run. Then Bren would roll on the mace & he'd get that. Then the hat (or 'hate') token would drop and, assuming that no one else could use it, both Bren and Ing could roll on it.

Because of course he would be mad, I got three things and he got dick.

I am wondering how this is any different from, say, a rogue in the party who got absolutely nothing, either - perhaps no leather dropped, perhaps only casting leather (AH HA HA HA HA right) dropped, or he got beaten out on the rolls by some other punk.

Sometimes people walk away with three purples, or two blues and a sweet green, or two tier tokens and a vendor gray that's fifty whole silver, simply because that's how the dice and the group compositions fall.

I know for me I would be thrilled if I got a set piece (I might even squee) and would be happy to stop rolling after that! And you are right most of us are like that!

I guess it is coming up with a happy medium, how do you set the rule so that people are not hesitant to roll pre set item drops, yet keeping the balance of who gets what.

Suggestion:

1. If you have already recieved an upgrade during the run please pass on all other rolls (except set pieces) unless noone else needs or wants.

2. If a set piece drops for your class please roll - even if you have already recieved an upgrade.

3. If you have already recieved a set piece this run, please pass unless no one else needs or wants.

So this would limit it to one upgrade piece and one set piece? Sounds fair to me!

I am also a fan of Tier pieces not counting towards any loot requirements. If a Tier piece drops for your class... roll for it. Regardless of any other loots you already have.

While I'm not in favor of loot whores... the one per run rule is a bit too strict. I'm more in favor of following the loot classifications on wow-loot.com. For example... here is the Kara listings.

Members of the primary class designation for that item should have first chance to roll, regardless of any previous loot they received. Then secondary, tertiary, anyone else, then shard. While it would seem unfair for someone to get 2, 3, or 4 drops in a run... it's all luck of the drop and the /roll, not anything that player is doing.

Most people in this guild would rather pass then take more then one item... and that's why I love this place. However... if VS wants to progress through higher instances then everyone needs the best loot for their class/spec. Setting soft limits of one epic per run might cause the problems of people not taking upgrades in hopes of better upgrades (as said above).

I agree with what Afk posted.

Raps' post on the other hand hurt my head. I don't think we quite need to codify it that far.

The rule isn't necessarily a 1 epic per run kind of deal. If you've already received an item and another item you can use drops and no one else can use it then no one is going to shard it.

I am also a fan of Afk's suggestions.

Raps, I'm not quite sure how to take this particular codification of loot rolls; that might be construed as telling people how to spec/gear.

I also like Gleja's Cereal Pug rule where if no one else wanted it, then it doesn't count as your one purple. Also I too agree with what Afk posted! AFK JOHNSON IS RIGHT! I would totally be fine with someone of my class getting one set piece and one upgrade on a run, even if my dice hated me that night. Because I can accept that as 'them's the breaks.'

So I guess to me personally, two and three is apparently the difference between a run where Bren gets dick because dick dropped, and a run where Bren gets dick because I was selfish and grabby.

I respect what Raps is saying about progression, and while it's getting a little too WE ARE NOW A RAIDING GUILD for me, I will, as previously said, absolutely respect whatever the officers & raid leaders decide. <3

We are modifying the loot rules... STAND BY FOR MORE DETAILS.

YAY OFFICERS. <3

PS, Thank you officers & raid leaders for working on this so hard and making the hard decisions. <3 <3 <3 <3

The decision has been made, all loot goes to me!!! Muhahahahahaha!!!!

HEY NO ONE SAID THE RULES WOULD BE DECIDED BY FOOT RUBS GIVEN TO AGNES!

Raps, I'm not quite sure how to take this particular codification of loot rolls; that might be construed as telling people how to spec/gear.

I understand how it could be seen that way. It does classify loot based on class and spec.

To counter my original point... with so many classes being versatile (druids and shammys specifically) it's hard to say, "you're a resto right now, so you can't roll on a dps piece". Especially since a few gold and a respec would make that toon dps and not resto.

I'm not sure what the best way to go is.

Granted... these last few weeks has been my first ventures into raiding so I'm more or less talking out of my ass here. I'm just seeing myself falling more into the raiding side of things then the casual "meh... let's to kara" side and am interested in seeing VS get as powerful as possible.

I'm sorry that I haven't had net access too much lately so I'm jumping into this conversation a little way into it.


Raps, I made that post a little while ago on the loot thread for a reason. VS is not a raiding guild, nor does it make its main goal to increase its power and progression. Many people in the guild are enjoying our progress, but that is not the most important thing to many in the guild, including people that are coming to Kara. I haven't read all the threads yet so I can't speak for other officers on what the set-in-stone loot rules will be. But I can tell you that we won't restrict looting based on wow-loot's system.

And not only because it is based on Hardcore Raiding priorities... but also because it has mistakes.

Why do I always get dick?

I thought you liked it???

Gah! So that's how I got pregnant...I kept getting dick with my crappy ass rogue rolls. It's all so clear now.

On a side note, to actually make this relevant, on all runs that I've gone on with VS so far (and I know it's recently dwindled, sorry) everyone has been great when its come to loot. The only fighting over gear I've seen is the whole "No you take it... no, no I insist YOU take it" that Ing had mentioned before. Everyone seems really mature about loot, even if a roll is lost. That's why I like it here.

And Cereal's loot rules where pretty damn good, even if the PuGs made me huddle in a corner at the end of the raid and cry for my mommy.

Never had a problem with any loot rule so far on any of the runs I have been on.