I love ZG (I'm less fond of AQ, although I've only seen the first two boss fights), and I feel kind of bad that I've had other things going on during the overhwelming majority of the ZG runs. Including the upcoming one.


Don't feel bad, RL takes precedent :) I have to work about 18 hours this upcoming weekend myself, not looking forward to it at all!!!

I'm just sticking in here how much Sapphyre, Foxfyr, Slowman and Amanda ROCK! We so had our way with ST last night. Thanks you guys!

I am really hoping to be playing a lot more over the next couple of months... especially if we're still stuck in a frickin' hotel room. This week has really been our first week back to playing more than just a couple of minutes and I've had a blast.

I'm just sticking in here how much Sapphyre, Foxfyr, Slowman and Amanda ROCK! We so had our way with ST last night. Thanks you guys!

I am really hoping to be playing a lot more over the next couple of months... especially if we're still stuck in a frickin' hotel room. This week has really been our first week back to playing more than just a couple of minutes and I've had a blast.


I suppose people get sick of the same old thing but you sure miss it when it's gone, dontcha?

Who's paying for a hotel room every night? Ouch!

Who's paying for a hotel room every night? Ouch!


Not me. It's courtesy of rackspace until our damn house sells.

I probably approach the game differently than most of the big dogs in VS, but to be the idea of cutting back play time just because the expansion is delayed is ludicrous. That said, I probably have the worst-outfitted (and least played) 60 toon in all of WoW, and don't really intend on changing that! Too many other alts and life commitments.

I need to get at least one of my toons in the 50's so you will see me around.

I do think you look at it a little differently, Schmoo, because you don't have a lot of play time as it is. <3 The people who are cutting back playtime are the ones who will basically be cutting back from playing every day to just playing a couple of days, so they'll still be around just as much as most casual players! :)

That said, I'll be around as much as I've been around, mostly on weekdays, because weekends is when I run around and see movies, etcetc.

At least until Twilight Princess comes out, and then to HELL WITH ALL OF YOU! ALL OF YOU I SAY! Link > Thrall.

I've got a 60 paladin, a 60 rogue, and a 55 priest I'm working hard on getting to 60.

I don't come to large raids because I get so much grief about Vent.

I know quite well that I am not the only person in the guild who doesn't or can't use Vent; I'm just the only person who speaks up about it on the boards. When I do, though, I get a catch-22 answer: the other people don't count, because they don't raid.

Neither do I.

Yeah, I know I keep bringing this up. It's not my intention to make anyone stop using Vent. But the feeling I get that I'm unwelcome because I don't use it is, alone, why I don't sign up for the larger raids and will only sign up for a smaller raid if one of my friends is going, too.

That said, I won't be cutting back on playtime. I'll still be on like a madman. Hell, I started an undead priest a couple weeks ago and realized that since I'd never played an undead, there were actually a whole passel of newbie quests I'd never done. It was almost like having new content!

Instead of just not coming, you could sign up and play a raid without being in vent. See how it goes.

We definitely do not want you to feel alienated because you don't use vent. As much as it does help to keep everyone organized, it isn't required. Like G said, sign up and see how it goes.

Oh yes, true, I could. But the last time I went to an instance without a good friend in the raid, I missed out on loot I needed because people kept forgetting to type out what they were deciding via voice. Feeling like the 'special' friend that people have to make allowances for is bad enough. I prefer not to get the frustration of a 20-man if the general guild stance on it is that it's my problem for slowing everybody else down...which seemed to be the answer when I asked about it before.

Next time you go in, just make it clear to the raid leader and your class wise guy (if they're in the raid) that you're not on vent and to remember that when discussing strategies and giving out loot. If you have to, /poke often.

I'm not sure what raid that was, but I know I once screwed Kae out of some loot in ZG for the same reason. Since then I've always linked items in /ra chat.

I don't think you need to feel persecuted because of this. Like I've said before here and in your previous thread, vent is not required. Eula comes on raids all the time without using vent. So far it hasn't been a problem.

Okay...maybe I've been talking to the wrong people. Thanks, guys. I'll give ZG a try, then.

Cool. I haven't added a strategy for the fish boss yet. But our approaches for the other bosses are on the wiki. These are good reading for everyone who is new to ZG, vent-user or not. But since I wrote most of them, I may be biased.

http://wikihost.org/wikis/vsraid/wiki/zg

It also might help if we designate someone as the relay. I've done this for a lot of groups where Euls couldn't use vent, and it worked out well. This keeps the leader from having to talk and type at the same time, and it keeps non-venters informed!

Yez, I have vent, but I don't use it generally because my connection is fickle and Vent only worsens the situation. Funny because there was a time in my life when I was ALWAYS on a Vent server while playing n_n;

I believe Gleja's idea of reading up on strategies beforehand would be beneficial to you; I usually review boss fight strategies before going into a raid and then it's not so necessary for anyone to relay the info to me 'cos I've looked it up myself. But in special issues Ingomurr has been very helpful it is true :-*

The most important thing is to make sure that you're versed in the boss strategies before going into the raid and the Wiki is great for that. As a raid leader, I'll flat out say that I'm not going to type in the full boss strategy every single time we go on a raid, nor am I going to type in every single step of the way - that's absurd, my fingers would fall off. But these days, even on Vent we only touch briefly on the strategies because we're getting the hang of them. Just make sure you're informed of what the boss strategies "in general" are, and it's great.

There are, I think, on any raid 3 things that should be typed out:

1) CC Assignments (which I always do anymore through /rw)

2) Role assignments for those who are not on vent - just letting you know if you should be healing, what blessing you should be casting, etc.

3) Loot - people are of course going to chatter about loot on Vent, I mean, duh, but the actual mechanics of handing it out need to be handled via the raid typing, this is true. We'll do a better job going forward of that by linking the item (which we already do) and simply typing what the restrictions are. Something like "This <item> is a purple rep for warriors, paladins, and priests - any of those who do NOT already have one, please roll now." Sound reasonable?

Also, Ing's idea of a relay is a good one. In your particular case I like to use Aro as the relay since you two get to talk a lot anyway, and she has nothing better to do but be our healbot. :D

I think it will also help a lot because when you lead (and I think Glej is doing this now too), you use raid announce at the beginning when you assign the CC symbols - this helps because if someone is responsible for CC and can't use vent, they know what to do from the symbols.

For example, if someone who was not on vent and was playing a mage saw in raid announce, right in the middle of the screen, "Mirielle - Blue Square - Sheep," she would know that in any battle where the blue square appears, she is meant to sheep the mob it appears on. If there is no blue square, she is meant to assist in killing whatever mob the MA is on at the time. :)

I'm not sure when we started announcing them like that, but we should definitely keep it up. :)

Also it's important to note that it's always okay to ask what you need to be doing if you don't know, especially on bossfights. While there is no way a raid leader wants to type the whole strategy out every time, it shouldn't be that bad to type out one person's role, or have the relay to do so.

Mostly, and I speak for myself here when I'm leading a five-man, it's important to try and remember that someone isn't on vent. I admit that I screw this up a lot and will forget that someone can't hear me. Same for first-time attendees. I forget a LOT when someone has never seen an instance before. This is why I did not want to be a teacher. I would be terrible. WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT A DEBIT IS? GOD. EVERYONE KNOWS TH... oh wait, you're not an accountant, right.

That's an exellent point, Ing, which I should have made. Of course questions are welcome.

I need nineteen other close friends to pull it off.

Hey Arolaide, Wait until Lenlador and I get 60 and you will have 2 more to group with to do ZG and AQ-20 ;D