I made a post down a few notches about trying to realign my raiding expectations with VS. However, recently we had a little taste of some 25-man content. Dalwin, Kharsian, Perseous and I all planned to raid like this part-time. The only problem is, we REALLY liked it and want to do it more, which is not possible unless we join a raiding guild. However we still love VS and sure as hell don't want to leave. So here is what we would like to do. We would like to bring just the characters over to this other guild that would raid. We don't want to necessarily move all of our characters. Why? Well to be honest, we aren't looking for new friends. Being in that other guild with those characters facilitates scheduling, communication and other things to make raiding easier. It also secures us an "inside spot" on the runs so we won't miss out on stuff we want to see.

At a minimum, I will be stepping down as Director so I won't be leading VS raids anymore. But if everyone is cool with it, we would like to keep our non-raid toons here so we have the place we call "home" to come back to. We really have no intention of raiding with these alts and would love to be able to level them and still do stuff with VS here. We really want to know what you think.

I care a lot about you guys. I really thought I could avoid the bug - but I can't. I want to see this content and break it hard when it comes out.

Given your drive I am surprised you resisted this long lol.

Go have fun with your little friends now.

I have never been big on being in two guilds at the same time, it normally leads to problems but I trust you and the officers can avoid the common mistakes.

Hey, you have to play how you like to play, right?

But let me make this suggestion -- take all your toons out. Even if they don't all raid. When people have done this before, it's never really worked to leave a token toon behind.

Bascially what you're saying by leaving a guy behind is, "This is the toon I don't care about." Or "This is my 'short bus' toon."

Now, you might not actually feel that way. I don't know. But that's how it's perceived.

So take them all. Go play the game that you want to play.

Having been an officer in a guild, when someone leaves but leaves a toon in the guild it's just insulting. Like Gleja said, it's like saying this is the toon I don't care about.

If you're going to leave, just take them all.

I'll stick my neck out here -- I value what Khros, Dalwin, Kharsian, and Perseous have contributed to this guild and to my enjoyment of the game. and thank them for it. At the same time I recognize that there may be disagreement on this issue, due at least in part to differing playing styles, and can understand others' points of view.

That said, I for one would welcome you guys keeping your non-raiding toons in the guild, at least for a little while, and see how that goes. We have plenty of members who rarely or only occasionally play, or have toons on other servers, but are welcome to remain in the guild. I don't see why this should be any different.

Just my 2 cents worth.

I don’t understand at all the problem with having toons in two different guilds.

I am a member of two guilds on Eitrigg, and it represents how I play those characters. The guys I keep in VS are the ones that I hope to do groups and raids with; the others I keep in another guild. It doesn’t mean I don’t like them, or don’t play them--it means I play them with different goals in mind.

We all say that everyone should play their own game, but some of us (me included) enjoy several different styles of play. Does it not make sense to have guild members who share your goals? Especially if you are needing 24 other people for a raid?

I suspect that there is more going on here than I know about, but I say go for it, Khros.

WoW is a game, and people should play how they want to play. If you want to get into raiding the new 25-man content, that is what you should do. Once you guys are geared up, run my ass through some of the harder heroics. ;)

Personally, I don't have a problem with you leaving some toons in VS, but I can see where some may. I just hope you guys won't be strangers...I've really enjoyed playing with all of you, and you've all been friendly and helpful and good company.

I really don't have any objections

I feel the "bigger better" raid growing pains sometimes too so I know where you're coming from on that. I also know just what ya mean by not wanting to really leave... VS is a rocking bunch!

I also understand that making a move like this can be abrasive sometimes and rub folks the wrong way, hence the post I'm assuming. I belive the intent here is pure in the sense you guys really dont want to leave per say, just experience content VS wont get to near as fast as an "OMG GO GO GO!" hardcore raiding guild will.

My post boils down to the old saying "You can't serve two masters."

I feel as though a person can not truly be a full member of two different guilds. But what do I know. Maybe it can work.

At a minimum, I will be stepping down as Director so I won't be leading VS raids anymore. But if everyone is cool with it, we would like to keep our non-raid toons here so we have the place we call "home" to come back to. We really have no intention of raiding with these alts and would love to be able to level them and still do stuff with VS here. We really want to know what you think.

I care a lot about you guys. I really thought I could avoid the bug - but I can't. I want to see this content and break it hard when it comes out.

Best of luck with the raiding! I've no doubt you'll enjoy the challenge it'll provide and the chance to see a few new encounters. (And that really is the point of playing - *having fun*. Enjoy the game!) You can share some tips on your alts when you're around and we're dragging your fourth (fifth? sixth?) alt's sorry ass through VH. :) I look forward to it!

I saw the changes you made (listed in your other post). I know you do care about the people in VS. I appreciate you allowing us the time to voice our opinions on something that is virtually your decision. My personal opinion, I don't mind if you leave someone behind in VS.

I used to be part of a hard core raid guild, the only time we came together to do things was when we raided, the rest of the time people broke off into their own little groups. There wasn't much for guild chat, except to point at other people and laugh, because they weren't as cool as they were. I can understand your desire to keep a character in a guild with personality and people who actually interact with each other on a level beyond "What loot U get?" or "How much damage U do?"

I also understand that "desire to raid" feeling, I get it here an there too. I like to keep busy and do instances whenever the opportunity. Raiding would be even a better challenge and the excitement of breaking new content many times keeps you going on and on. It was that excitement and challenge of the unknown, that kept me interested as long as it did. However, the idea of a guild with a "raid mentality" really turns my stomach. So, I wish you good luck and hope we still see you in VS sometimes.

I can't speak for everyone on this matter (meaning Dalwin, Kharsian or Persous), but my intention is to simply move Khros. It seems most people are in support of our leaving the other toons in VS. The only time I will play likely play Khros is for the raids. In case you haven't noticed, I have hardly played him at all. As a comparison (time played / time at level 80):

Pregor: 63 days, 3 hours / 4 days, 17 hours
Khros: 81 days, 21 hours / 0 days, 12 hours
Borroso: 21 days 12 hours / 0 days 15 hours

So you can see, Khros has had little to no time played since making 80. He has even less than my priest - who just made 80 last Sunday. This isn't really about keeping a "toe" in VS. It is about putting a "toe" in the raiding guild.

From 9pm server to 12am server on Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday I will appear offline because I will be on Khros. For all other time I would be on a VS toon.

We will let the officers and guild leaders make their decision based on the comments on this thread. As I said, we don't want to create hard feelings. However it appears the general concensus here is most people are fine with it and those opposed are not dramatically opposed.

I really don't have any objections

I feel the "bigger better" raid growing pains sometimes too so I know where you're coming from on that. I also know just what ya mean by not wanting to really leave... VS is a rocking bunch!

I also understand that making a move like this can be abrasive sometimes and rub folks the wrong way, hence the post I'm assuming. I belive the intent here is pure in the sense you guys really dont want to leave per say, just experience content VS wont get to near as fast as an "OMG GO GO GO!" hardcore raiding guild will.

From my perspective, Dondoh nailed my feelings precisely. VS is a great group of people (hell, I just bought the Guild Swag T-Shirts :) ) and I love playing with everyone, but the 25 man runs are crazy fun and Melestria is well suited for them.

My intention is to only shift Melestria out. Dalwin (Pally Tank), Flayvius (Death Knight) and Cholestria (Warlock) would like to remain in VS. As Frolic described from her experience, I plan to raid Melestria two or three nights a week and probably hang out with Dalwin and the rest of alts in VS the other four nights. This is definately NOT a case of me leaving the toons that I do not care about behind. Although Melestria has received the most play over the past year, Dalwin is my main. He was the first toon that ever saw end game content in any game and he has a special place in my heart.

Getting back to tanking instances with Dalwin has been a lot of fun, and I would like him to continue tanking 5-mans and whatever else VS needs. He can even help out in 10 man Naxx if needed, though I suspect you have plenty of tanks for that now and I am fine taking a backseat there.

Basically, VS is my social network and I would like that to continue.

Thanks to everyone for your support. As Khros said, we will leave the final decision up to the guild leadership. Whatever they decide though, we really appreciate everyone taking the time to let us know how they feel. The last thing we want is to create any drama over the departure of these toons.

This makes me happy. And yeah, I can barely remember seeing Khros (the toon) around. But I guess this puts pressure on me to finally get Uvula to 80 and help relieve this awful Lork shortage.

But I guess this puts pressure on me to finally get Uvula to 80 and help relieve this awful Lork shortage.

NUUUUUUUUU! OUIJI WILL BE VS UBERLOK!! U STAY TREE, KK?

:D

NUUUUUUUUU! OUIJI WILL BE VS UBERLOK!! U STAY TREE, KK?

:D

Bring it.

I consider several, and I mean several, people in VS whom I have never met in real life to be my friend. I have always planned to level my pally and make him a healer. Hopefully I can level him quickly to give VS more healing options. I would really like to do this and I hope that I can do this. As those who have said earlier I will have to wait for the officers to get together and determine that. Ya'll will always be my friends.

Bah, warlorks. What do we need those for anyway? It's not like there are giant invisible mobs in a raid we occasionally visit which can only be seen with a warlork buff. *cough*

Besides, compared to hunters and mages, their DPS sucks.

Aside from the warlorkiness, I'm not sure why this is a topic for discussion. The question should be, "Is VS cool with its members being in multiple guilds?" Not "Is VS cool with Khros et al being in multiple guilds?" (Or "Hey guild, is it OK with all of you if I go join a raiding guild?") And whatever the decision is should be applied consistently and fairly to all VS members.

Aside from the warlorkiness, I'm not sure why this is a topic for discussion. The question should be, "Is VS cool with its members being in multiple guilds?" Not "Is VS cool with Khros et al being in multiple guilds?" (Or "Hey guild, is it OK with all of you if I go join a raiding guild?") And whatever the decision is should be applied consistently and fairly to all VS members.

I don't think we are seeking special treatment. Quite the contrary. The guild has already set a precedent that people can have raiding toons in one guild and keep other toons in ours (i.e Ressick, Lojac, etc.)

We are just trying to do the same thing Ressick did in this post last year.

I don't think we are seeking special treatment. Quite the contrary. The guild has already set a precedent that people can have raiding toons in one guild and keep other toons in ours (i.e Ressick, Lojac, etc.)

We are just trying to do the same thing Ressick did in this post last year.

The difference is that Ressick decided what to do and did it and let us know ... he didn't decide what to do and then say, "This is what we are going to do if everyone is cool with it."

It is not up to everyone. It's up to you, unless the guild has some policy that says you can't, which if it did, would need to apply the same way to everyone.

Yup. There's more than ample precedence for people having toons in VS and another guild and I don't remember it ever making a lick of difference, whether that other guild was a raiding guild or a casual one. We've accepted members who said upfront that they had toons in another guild that they weren't bringing in. As far as I'm concerned, if people want to take some toons out and leave some behind, that's entirely their choice. No need to ask permission to do so.

I would guess that I fall into whatever decision/discussion happens here as well. I still push pretty hard in WoW, and I'm getting a bit bored with Jorack as I have completely run out of 5-man heroic and 10-man badge upgrades. I'm not keen on scheduled raiding, so what I've done is moved my druid to a server where other friends are hanging out. I'm going to slowly level there and maybe try some casual raiding there with the 'Left-Overs' multi-guild raiding group.

If I am wrong in listing my non VS toons and realms here in my signature let me know.

Thing is when I left, I wasn't a Director. Nor was I going with a bunch of others. So I would say that Khros doing this is so that everyone can get a handle on what he's attempting to do and whether or not it's going to cause unnecessary drama. Honestly though, who really gives a shit?

Khros, if you wanna go raid, do it. If you wanna keep characters in the guild that you'll play on when you're not raiding, go ahead. Folks, thinking that leaving characters in a guild when you're raiding with another guild is an insult is taking it a bit far. Maybe that's how you see it but from what I can attest to,that even though my main or w/e was without a VS tag, I never felt like I wasn't welcome. Hell, even raiding on another server I don't feel like I'm not welcome. That night in AQ40 can tell anyone that.

Enjoy the raid bug while it lasts guys. It's tons o' fun and lewtz galore. Just glad you're not forgetting where home is. :)

So many times I see WoW Drama and just shake my head in utter confusion over what the fundamental issues here are. I have some things to say on this matter, as I've had personal experience with situations like this - it's a bit longwinded, so bear with me.

Many of you are newer and might not know this, but I am also guilty of what was apparently the terrible sin of leaving a more casual guild to explore more raid content in the game. Just after Burning Crusade came out, I left VS for a time and joined a raiding guild. I held no animosity towards anyone in the guild, I simply wanted to try something new, take my gaming in a direction I had never had the opportunity to experience before. I also wanted to help the members of this raiding guild, as some of their members had been extremely generous in helping me with some of my own personal goals, and I felt I owed them at least something. Was this wrong? I certainly didn't think so at the time, I've always felt that people should play the game the way they want to. I even left one of my toons that I was still levelling in the guild, because I enjoyed the friendships and company of the people I had been playing with for so long, and I didn't want to lose touch.

What happened? I discovered much later that my departure had caused a unexpected drama, people talking behind my back, and my other toons had been removed from the guild. Now, much of this was my own fault. I had left quietly, hadn't posted anything on the forums, and no one really asked me why I had left, so people just starting making assumptions. I handled it badly.

Back to the matter at hand. Khros, Dalwin, Kharsian, and Perseous joined us many moons ago, already a closely knit group of friends, looking for a guild that perhaps had a different attitude than most on Eitrigg, perhaps in WoW as a whole. We've always prided ourselves on being different, being fun, and not taking this game as seriously as many do. God knows I joined VS because of that, and later returned to VS for the same reasons. When we as a guild decided to take steps into more serious raiding, the four of them were eager to help, because that was the sort of game they wanted to play, but /we/ were the people they wanted to do it with. Many friendships were formed, many dungeons were conquered. Good times, in my opinion.

I've played with Dalwin, Kharsian, and Perseous, and I think they're all stand up guys. I've had the pleasure of meeting Khros in person, and now consider him to be a good friend. Because of this, the idea of them leaving VS saddens me, but it doesn't upset me, and it certainly doesn't mean I want to lose contact with them completely. And on top of this, I respect the fact that they're being completely open and honest with the guild about what their intentions are, something that I made the mistake of not doing.

I don't see any problem with people leaving toons in VS and taking other toons elswhere - and definitely don't find it insulting in any regard. Let's say someone I had been close friends with for a long time was offered a fantastic new career opportunity on the other side of the country. What would my response be to that? It certainly wouldn't be 'Okay, see you later, please do not make any attempt to contact me and you should probably cut all your ties with your home.' God no. I would support the decision, wish them well, and let them know that they were always welcome back.

So, to Khros, Dalwin, Kharsian, and Perseous: I don't want to see you guys leave. But if it's something you have to do, then by all means, go forward and kick ass, and good luck to all of you. If you're leaving toons in the guild, and still want to run stuff with us, I'd be more than happy to have you on my runs, and if down the road you want to come back full force, you already have my support.