Because I don't want prying eyes to see... nasty little rats.

I want to open a book store. But not just any book store... one of those 'old dusty tomes full of sorcerous magic' book stores. And not just that but a book store/gothic bar type place... yes complete with everything (including corsets) you could ever associate with gothic and victorian and all of that lacy jazz. The type of place where you either have to know someone or be 'that cool' to enter, because I just can't let anyone into my sanctuary. The swing, the bats, the gargoyles, the stone, the corsets, the rituals, the mist, the magic... omg, can you NOT see the fabulousness that is my place?

So I'm curious... before I hit the investors, who would actually be interested in a place such as this? Keep in mind, if it goes crazy, it goes crazy at MY command, because I will maintain complete control.

Also.. if all of a sudden there are an influx of these types of places, I will hold you all responsible and will punish you accordingly. I can do that sort of thing.

Seriously though, feedback (not the type that makes me cry) would be fantastic. Whatcha think?

my membership card number would be 000001.

I have thought about doing just that before, but I have bills, and places like that don't make money.

If you could get a gub'ment grant to pay my bills while I hang out at your store, I would be there with blackberry lipstick on.

Well its a cool idea, but im afraid Torrin is right. Your going to attract kids 14 + that are the nerdy geeky pimply faced watch star wars everyday and dont have any money but the ten dollars a week their parents give to them.

I was in this really cool place in Saratoga Springs just like the one you described. It had swords and all kinds of magical spells in jars.

I shall quit my job and school and live in your Gothic bar. I will now stop eating until I once again fit into my leather pants that match my frilly poet shirt.

You really could create a good niche if done correctly. There aren't many good new age book stores around that have a solid selection beyond some fluffy/trendy Scott Cunningham rehashed-to-death garbage. Those few gems that remain tend to get a nice cult following.

As far as a gothic bar, the goth scene has been beaten to death by moronic black Marylin Manson T-Shirt wearing dumbasses who aren't fit to be a pimple on a real gothic person's ass. If you create a rare goth bar that is actually goth and not some typical BS, again you would have a nice cult following.

Oh and I think you should have DCD play at the grand opening...

So when should I be quitting work/school?

Being a Junior High Schoolteaher. I would have to agree with the attracting of kids.

In my experiences, most of the "Goth" kids end up growing out of that stage by the 10th or 11th grade and start to assimilate into society as "normal" people. (Normal is relative).

As far as a business is concerned, I would think in order to make any type of profit, you would have to be located in a bigger metropolitan area like Boston, New York, LA, etc. Maybe shoot for Salem, Ma. where the entire town is filled with Wiccans, Warlocks, white/black magic shops, etc.

Hmmm....I used to live in Salem and while they are over-saturated with new age bookstore department, there really isn't a decent goth bar still in existence. Some of the only viable options in nearby Boston have closed down.

A goth bar in Salem would do insanely well and there are plenty of places to put one.

You would have to keep it legit by turning away all of the curious tourists who clearly are not gothic.

True, Sher. This store/bar needs to be in Salem. And then I could visit you for the weekend and hang out and read magikal books! :) And fyi, Brown, I went through a slight gothic phase in my early 20s so it's not true that they all appear around age 14 and grow out of it by age 16...Anyway, you should have a drink called the Bauhaus.

The teenage goths are NOT real goths.

Wearing black and listening to Manson is not a goth thing to do lol...

There is an older goth following that tend to hide from all the trendiness. I know a great deal of people between the ages of 25 and 45 that would religiously flock to a true goth bar.

You would be better off opening an online storefront that way you can reach the mass of goths. This way you would have a better shot at turning some sort of profit. That is the idea right?

Goths have no money! They are too busy being all "Anti - Establishment" to earn any kind of decent living! :P

You would be better off opening an online storefront that way you can reach the mass of goths. This way you would have a better shot at turning some sort of profit. That is the idea right?


I actually was going to attempt this once but I didn't have the time or $$$ I may still have some decent wholesaler info if you have an interest. I'll take a look and see if I can find it. Of course, you could have both a store front and an online presence.

Whatever you decide with the store, I still say a true goth club in the Salem area would be a gold-mine and likely a very enjoyable business venture.

Yeah and...it's SALEM!

Yeah and...it's SALEM!


I love Salem...it was a wonderful town to live in...there are a lot of great townie locations amidst all the touristy stuff. Plus you have Marblehead right next door with awesome ocean locations and the coolest cemetary ever. I'd love any reason to go back there!

I smell a VS con in Salem...

I smell a VS con in Salem...


Damn...I had a spontaneous orgasm at work again...how embarrassing!

I smell future phone sex---OKAY that was a joke! Everyone settle down.

Hi, I'm here for the phone sex!

Wyfe, you need to re-read our contract.

Great feedback, I did not expect such rational and wonderful comments. Thanks!

Now, for the reality check: I'm not looking for a place to 'make money' though a person HAS to pay the bills and unless I become spontaneously rich, it'll have to be profitable. But I'm a hermit-y kind of person in my life. So this place wouldn't be able to just be open to the public. Crazies out there, you know, and I don't want dumbass children floucing their nine tails at my bartenders and leaving black lipstick on my glasses. What I WANT is a place, a true place with ambience and mature individuals who are serious about their gothic fun. Think dead victorians and you go the idea. But right now, it's just an idea in my mind that I've had and not fleshed out... for about three years or so.

As I think about it, what I think would have to happen is the bar would support the bookstore. And the bar would have to be open to the public with like a private area in the back for the ones I deem Fabulous. The bookstore absolutely will not be like the New Age section at Books-a-million. That tripe is ridiculous. The REAL fun will be when I get drunk and we start pulling out books to 'try some shit out'. Ooooo FUN!

Salem was my original thought as well. So I guess I'd better go to the financier and sell my soul, huh? It's gonna take a load of bread to capitalize...

Point me to the orgy room, please.

Just let me know when it's time to abandon everything in my life to hang out in your bar :biggrin:

There are surprisingly successful goth clubs in, of all places, Tulsa, Oklahoma and Albuquerque, New Mexico.

In fact, there were quite a few in Albuquerque, though I only went to one, and it wasn't so much a 'goth club' as a 'gay bar that had a goth night every Thursday'.

So, you don't need a huge city to be successful with this sort of thing. Both Tulsa and Albuquerque are around the 200k people range.

Been talking this out with the significant other and we've pretty much decided it won't be able to happen for us for another five years or so... which isn't a bad timeline, when you think about it. What I'd like to hear is your opinions on what 'true goth' is. I have my own experiences with this sort of thing and my own idea about what it looks like, but I'm not the one who I need to entice to come spend money... if you see what I mean? So I'd like to hear what you guys think about decor and ambience, etc.

I like your idea of a pretty swing...kinda like a Garden of Eden sort of dealio. I like the idea of a lot of plant life and swirly writing. That sort of "come into my magikal garden of dreams" idea is really cool. Now, when I think of goth, I only think of it in terms of music. And all this black lipstick business...kids paying too much for cheap jewelry at Hot Topic to be "individuals" when they're only subscribing to a different brand of clone-ism...that to me isn't "goth." Um...ya know, I think people back in the day just saw Robert Smith and Siouxsie Sioux and said "neat!" and started with the black hair, pale skin combo because those were pretty people and their music was cool. And it got like all mangled and shit so now it's like White! Face! Black! Stuf on my Face! and it's not really about making a new sound. I'm not making sense. This store should be all about your special place and don't let the "sad" teenagers with fairy necklaces and striped tights tell you what it should be like. (for a mellow sound, I suggest The Cranes...picture a pretty girl with black hair and a joey lauren adams voice singing along to the dreamiest "gothy" music...or for a sexier, deep man-voice, mmmm, Peter Murphy!)

I'm having a slow day here and am reading back through old threads so I am just getting to this... interesting idea! A friend of mine from way back opened a gothy (or as they call it now, "Death Rock") bar in NY and it's doing very well. I think that anything is possible as long as you do your homework on the matter!

If/when this happens, I would love to pop by and see how it is, even though we don't do the gothy thing anymore :)

Oh I would like to mention that despite it being ideally for more mature, intelligent individuals, gawth always equals...... DRAMA!