I'm posting this in here so that those little horde fuckers can't see it and put in useless info.

The Baron must die. With the help of the veteran players we have the 'standard tactic' down, but it's just not working. Even though we really do have 'holy trinity' thing going for the most part, we aren't 'standard specs' and we shouldn't ever have to be.

So, forget what you are 'supposed' to do, let's figure out how we can do it (which I know will be much better then the 'standard' way anyways).

Most of you are familiar with what has to be done, so I will skip over most of it. What we know for sure is that the skellies have to die. From what I am reading/seeing while doing this is that it doesn't really matter the skellie's proximity to the baron for his heal to happen. They just need to die quickly. AoE's are the way to do this, but the heals happen very quickly so some of the channeled spells aren't that effective not to mention they are easily inturrupted and in order to be effective then the skellies need to all stay in one spot. The holy water is great, but can be hard to get off at times. Just tonight I went to do it and had range issues, by the time I threw the damn water it only killed 3 skellies. Apparently the average non-uber-speced Arcane Explosion will kill them all in about 2 shots. The holy priest AoE does it in one, and a fury war's whirlwind also takes care of it quickly.

I am also wondering if our current strategy for pulling him to the bone pile is necessary. The aoe (shadow based, I will get do that) seems to be centered on him, has nothign to do with the floor. I see the reason for getting him to the side there to give some breathing room for the squishies but I think the same think can be accomplished by standing next to the door and keeping the baron in his current spot. Since the casters shouldn't be moving, this gives a little room for others to step back and bandage, which is one of my major issues, hard to escape that aoe but if he stays in his spawn spot then there are two corners I can run to.

Shadow Shadow, where fore art thee Shadow. I really do hate to bring an assload of consumables to this sort of thing but I guess it's something I have always slacked on. Shadow resist buffs are usually going on this when available which gives me 73 resist starting, 81 I think with a trinket, and I just got my shadow mantle buff which would be 86. No idea how much a resist potion gives but at least then maybe I wouldn't get my ass kicked by the aoe.

Anyway, pick apart my horrible logic and let's see if we can kill this asshole. I read some strat earlier that if you shackle one of the little skellies from the first wave and keep him away from the baron then no more skellies will spawn, but I am calling shennanigans on that.

Anyone know for certain if there are only 3 waves of skeletons or do they keep coming until the baron is dead?

Providing there are only a certain number of waves, what if we were to have only the Tank engage the Baron until the skellies are all dead?

That would allow the tank to build up a ton of aggro while saving Healer mana and pointless DPS that would be healed anyway. Plus it would allow everyone but the Healer and Tank plenty of opportunity to toss Holy Water at the Skellie groups.

Once the waves are taken care of the DPS members can go to town on the Baron.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=A6N99TOaG8E&search=warcraft%20baron

Gotta sit through some shitty music and all the boss fights, but the baron fight sort of confirmed what I said before.

I didn't realize our warrior was engaging with the skellies. The warrior shouldn't ever take his focus off of the baron, I think. The Holy Water is quick and excellent against the skeletons.

I'm not sure what happened with our last fight with the baron. It seemed to be going really well, then once he got to 6500 hp, we all died. Is that when the AoE thing happens?

Also, once we get to the Baron, I say we bring extra armor and consumables and if we have to wait out the friggen' soulstone until that fucker is dead! who's with me! ;) No really, last time we almost had him dead and thought the next battle would get him... but then we died within a few seconds and shocked us all. So I don't know.

I'm wondering if the no DOT thing is good idea.

Having never fought the Baron or anything above a level 54 and survived I have little of value to add to this other than "Kick him in his JUNK!!!"

If that doesn't work, I really don't know what to say. Sorry.

What y'all need is a Mage with "Improved Blizzard" and I just happen to know one. ;)

Widget took down the baron last night. In a pug, I believe. I talked to him a bit about strategy as he's killed the baron a bunch.

I think for our first few times we may need to have very specific groups. A defensive Warrior, a Mage, a Priest. Those three for sure. Then fill out the group with another AoE class and another dps class.

Warrior engages the baron & holds his aggro. Priest heals the warrior. When skellies pop up, one mage takes out the ones by the priest & another AoE takes out ones that head to the Baron. This was my group's main problem last week, the skellies would split up.

Btw, yes, Holy Nova kills skellies dead but it also costs 800+ mana. It's an expensive spell for the damage it does and I'd rather keep my mana for healing.

When there are no skellies up, the mages can turn their attention to the Baron.

We'll bring all the shadow prot potions we have & I have my +20 shadow prot buff spell. Those both help. The warrior can have an invulnrability potion as well - that's 6 seconds of protection. Toss in a greater stoneshield (+2000 armor) and our tank should be set.

I really think that's about it. I felt much better about the Baron after last week's run. It's mostly just a matter of fine tuning & practice.

The positioning of the Baron in that video accomplishes the same thing; keep HIS aoe away from the healers. During the fight, the mage and warlock were continually taking the AOE damage because they had to be in the AoE range of the Baron to cast on him. The healers can be just outside the range and still heal the tanks if the tank is closer to the healer than the Baron is. His aoe aura is large enough so that if he's not pulled to one corner of the room and the party isn't on the opposite side, everyone will take damage.

That "opposite" side is the safe zone for the healer(s) to hang out and for any ranged dps to go and bandage if they need to. Rogues can run there too if things get really bad for them.

I don't know if there are only 3 waves of skeletons nor do I know if shackling one skeleton will work. What I do know is that if one skeleton is shackled, that one skeleton must be far enough away from the Baron so he can't sacrifice it and heal himself.

In terms of the aoe:

- Whirlwind affects 4 mobs, so it's only really good for cleanup.
- Holy water - great method. Coordination is an issue, but if everyone knows who is up next to use it and they use it regardless of the condition of the skeletons, it will hopefully insure the Baron isn't healed.
- Warlocks should use Hellfire instead of rain of fire (which is a mistake I've been making).
- Freeze the skeletons only if they're running BACK to the baron.

Shadow resist/absorption gear/potions will help greatly.

What's the 'no DOT' thing?

No DOT's? 50 DKP MINUS for no dots!

I'm working on a reply to this. I've also been talking with someone at work (we'll call him "Opie") who had a 60 priest for a while (until he decided he was done with WoW and hasn't played since). Opie has taken down the Baron a few times in 5-man, so I've been picking his brain for strategy also.

...more info later...

The 3 times I have been successful in PuGs against the Baron it was done the way Gleja explained above.

The most important things are for the Warrior to keep aggro, a dedicated healer for the warrior and above all...Kill the skullies asap.

Shackling won't help, sadly. It takes too long to cast, and I'm focused on keeping the tank up. The skellies are weak, easier to just kill them with AoE.

Oh, one thing I thought of to help with the splitting skellies problem.

As we've been working it, the goal is to get all the skellies to head to me. Then a single AoE spell/holy water will wipe them out. If I pop a shield on the tank as soon as the skellies appear, that's going to make them hate me. They should all head straight for me.

The downside is that it might mess with the tank's rage. Not sure, since I've never played warrior. If there's a rogue or off tank in with the Barron, I could shield them instead. Same effect.

It is a fact that Gleja is a better healer than I am, what with the Holy spec; however, I really don't want to think that was reason why I was so completely useless against the Baron because that would SUCK. I was spamming heals and not making a DENT, and then all of a sudden we would be dead.

I do think it's really telling that we pwned our way through the whole dungeon -- even Ramstein, that RULED -- and getting to the Baron was like hitting a brick wall.

I have all of 11 points in Holy. And that's just to get Holy Nova & the reduced Greater Heal casting time. I am a disciplinarian nun, baby.

Shackling won't help, sadly. It takes too long to cast, and I'm focused on keeping the tank up. The skellies are weak, easier to just kill them with AoE.

I seriously doubt that the shackle trick is true anyway, but *if* it was, I actually think this would be the way to go (just to stop the waves of skellies). HOWEVER, there would have to be another healer in the group, for the MT.

Some of the 45 minute Baron guides suggest having dual priests, but none of them talk about shackle. The 2nd priest is just there to speed up the run & help with CC before you get to the Baron.

We could certainly try that? We've pwned the rest of the undead when we've been grouped together, that's for sure.

The problem I see with that is that it's technically selfish, since there are only the two of us. XD

Personally I'd rather have another AoE instead of a 2nd priest. At least for these first runs. None of us are really trying for the 45 minute thing, so we're not concerned about speed. And if that Devout Skirt drops, I don't want to wrestle you for it.

Here it is (I typed it in Word and I'm just gonna paste the whole thing, even though some of it may be moot / talked into the ground by now):

Main potions needed for Baron:

*Greater Shadow Protection (absorbs 1950 to 3250 shadow damage, lasts one hour). Everyone should have at least 1 of these, not just the MT.
*Magic Resistance Potion (increases all resistances by 50 for 3 mins). Everyone should have at least 1 of these.
+Major Mana potion (restores 1350 to 2250 mana). All mana-burners should have a few of these. With the 2-minute cooldown, don’t wait too long before drinking the first one.
*Major Healing potion (restores 1050 to 1750 health). Everyone should have a handful of these, especially the MT and DPS’ers.
+Limited Invulnerability potion (immune to physical attacks for 6 secs). Defintely for the MT, maybe DPS’ers also.
*Greater Stoneshield potion (increases armor by 2000 for 2 mins). Defintely for MT, maybe DPS’ers also.

* = Zan can make these
+ = Zan cannot make this (yet) – The Mana recipe can only be obtained after completing three different Scholo quests. The recipe is BoP. Zan has only completed one of the three quests.

There are, of course, many other useful potions: Agility boosts, spell damage boosts, strength boosts, etc. These have been listed before on other posts, and will be vital, but I feel that the above mentioned potions are ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY for the Baron.

Skellies: Where do they spawn from? The center? The bone piles? Are there a pre-determined number of groups that spawn, or do they keep coming until the Baron is dead? Can anyone confirm if the shackle trick would work? If so, the shackled one has to be pulled away from the others, but the priest would have to keep shackling, so we would need another healer for the MT.

Other strategies:

Start hitting Scholo, BRD, BRS more, for the sole purpose of gear upgrades. “Opie” recommended this one – his thought is that the Baron is one of the toughest bosses to take down (of those who drop tier 0), and the pants are one of the lowest drop rates. If we can gear up with more tier 0 (or 0.5 for those working on that), we would have a better chance. Maybe save the pants for last (or at least later). Yes, it is now personal for me, and I think for others also. But perhaps we should think about this. Also, increase our recipe base (such as the Major Mana recipe).

Group switchouts: Once a group has made it to the Baron, perhaps changing out some members (obviously a warlock is required). This will not work out all the time. We need to make sure all members have a chance at their pants, but perhaps if one or two group members already have their pants, and we feel a change might work, we could try it. For example: The group only has one healer, but 2 rogues (one with their pants). We could switch out the panted rogue for another healer, or another AoE’er to help take out the skellies. Just something to think about…

Warlock healthstones: If a group is going without a ‘lock, but there is one online, see if everyone can get a healthstone (or 2) from the warlock before starting. One time use only, but every little bit helps.

I kinda want to reiterate this again.

There isn't any real trick to beating the Baron. While I'm more than happy to discuss tactical possibilities, there is really only 1 thing that seperates this encounter from other boss encounters: the skeletons.

Sure, every other basic tactical premise is there. Threat generation, aggro control, controlled dps, healing, etc. The added difficulty is the skeletons.

I admit that I have, as the AoE person in the few runs I've done with this character, failed in that. It is that failure which ultimately led to the failure of the groups I've been in. And I now know why. I was too concerned with doing both DPS to the Baron and taking care of the skeletons. *IF* the AoE is taken care of, the other members of the party WILL do enough DPS to the Baron to take him out.

As a warlock, I can DoT in between waves of skeletons, but as the AoE, my primary concern HAS to be the skeletons. So in the future, I'm not going to Shadowbolt the Baron until I am comfortable enough in this encounter, as a warlock, to do so.

Well, we're not running the Baron daily or even weekly. We are going to these other places & getting upgrades. The nice thing about Ripp's dungeon rotation is that it gives us time inbetween Baron runs to improve our group dynamics and gear.

Skellies spawn from all over the place. Mostly the bonepiles, if I remember. I really think the shackle trick won't work, but I am willing to give it a try.

Oh, and I absolutely agree that the Baron is consistantly the toughest of these boss mobs to take down. Without a doubt. I don't want to downplay the difficulty here, because it is a difficult encounter.

All of the suggestions regarding equipment upgrades here will absolutely make a difference: potions, armor/weapon upgrades, etc.

I refuse to agree with Clan that we OMGMUST get better gear before we beat the Baron, JUST ON GENERAL PRINCIPLE. Because now, like Zan said, it's totally personal. XD We keep getting *so close* -- I think if we farm holy waters on the live runs and even keep a hand on them when we start UD we'll do fine. Also everyone should have a Medallion of Faith, so every group will get a chance with the Paladin.

People may want to run over to the blasted lands and pick up some of the buff consumables from there. They're fairly quick to get and plus 50 to a single attribute is nothing to shake a stick at. I believe they stack with pots, but I'm not sure. Just remember you can only have one actve at a time.

Now that is a good idea. I just may do that.