Today I kicked the Baron in his junk. I did it with an average pug. No one had crazy purple epics. No one had any special tricks. We killed him the same way VS groups have been trying to kill him. Next time VS goes, the Baron will fall.

I'm writing up some details of the run, complete with screenshots. I'll post it here later this afternoon.

http://iwhitney.hopto.org/~inky/vs/baron.jpg
http://iwhitney.hopto.org/~inky/vs/baron.jpg

The group was as follows:

Me - Priest
Vendicate - Warrior (with BloodGuard guild)
Amras - Hunter (with BloodGuard guild)
Frostlove - Mage (with Alts Gone Wild guild)
Silvermaiden - Paladin (no guild)

The Baron fight:

All but the tank were against the left wall, at our normal bone pile. Vendicate stared on the opposite wall. He rushed the Baron & did 5 sunders. At least, that's what he said he was going to do. I never checked.

I don't think it mattered, but the tank never moved the Baron to the bone pile.

Once the sunders were up, I started healing and the hunter & pally started attacking. Now, I don't know what the hunter did. He was kind of a tool. But the Pally, I noticed, dropped consecrate when any skellies got near the Baron.

Once the skellies popped, most headed straight for me & the mage. I took the opportunity to pop up a shield, which ususally brought even more of them to me. The mage made quick work of them.

I occasionally drew the Baron's aggro, but that was mostly because aggro management had been a problem the entire run. I really never should have had to heal the Pally and Hunter as much as I did during that run. More on that later.

When I did draw aggro, a quick shield or fade solved the problem.

When there were no skellies up, the mage would fireball the Baron.

After about 3 waves of skellies, we had the Baron down. Simple as that.

The Players & The Run

With the exception of Frostlove, who was quite good, these were not uber players. The hunter in particular was a moron. He'd get a bunch of aggro & never feign death. I'm amazed I never had to rez him.

The Pally was spastic too, but she usually came through in a pinch, dropping a good secondary heal. But she'd also get crazy aggro. I don't know if it was something she was doing or something the tank wasn't doing. She died during Rammstein, which led to some frenzied rezzing before the death guard came out.

For the rest of the run I saw only a few minor changes from our usual route. They were more active about pulling the stitched horrors. And if we ever got two, I just shackled the second one. When we hit the Magistrate (from whom I got a very nice cloak), the tank took him all the way to the back wall, so that the knockback didn't send us into the group of 4 ghouls who stand by the gate to the slaughterhouse. We just snuck past those ghouls.

The rest of the run was actually much harder than a VS run because of all the aggro problems. I healed a lot more than I normally do.

Gear:

I checked the gear these folks were wearing & it was all about the same level as ours. The mage was the best geared, sporting tier 0 and .5. Most everyone else was in blue, with some tier 0. Even a few greens floating around.

So gear is not our problem. We don't need to farm jack shit. We just need practice. Everyone else in the group had killed the Baron before and that experience showed.

nice! Maybe a dumbass hunter is the key?

Grats!

We know it can be done, but once again, there is the 'holy trinity', which is what we want to get around. Though I doubt that is possible. And as a rogue, well that kinda sucks.

nice! Maybe a dumbass hunter is the key?


I can fill that role!

wait... that's a bad thing right?

The hunter was a tool & almost completely useless. Dump him & put in whatever class you please.

I feel the mage can be swapped out with a lock, no problem. The group I was with just wanted a caster in the roll; they weren't adamant about a mage.

The Pally was handy. But I don't feel they are required.

Could you replace the warrior with a tough, defensive pally? I think so. But I also think the battle will take longer & you better have some good skelly management.

Can you ditch the priest? Hmmm.

So my group might have been closer to an "ideal" mix, but I feel there's room for a lot of variation.

The priest is kind of important it seems. Druids could heal just fine, but if you draw agro there really isn't anything the dr00d can do!

And the shackling helps a lot in the earlier part of the instance.

I'm just teasing. Druids have plenty of options. They can switch to bear & absorb damage. They can switch to cat & cower. They can switch to moonkin & dance.

That said, I think without a priest in the party you have to be more selective in the mix. A pally becomes much more necessary.

Lets not forget that Dire Druids make killer tanks too.

I think we can get around the "holy trinity", yes. Though it might be easier to have a mage OR a warrior OR a priest as one of your party members, I hate the idea that these three classes comprise the core of every successful 5-man. BAH!

Using the Holy Water in an order determined before the battle, with a designated person calling for the next one was suggested by Jam, and I think that would also help wipe out skelly waves in short order.

None of this answers the most important question.

Did you get your skirt? XD

By the way, I don't believe we used a single holy water. I know I didn't.

I got no skirt. I don't think any pants fell. I did upgrade my cloak, however.

That's surely not possible, he always drops trou!

Or skirt, as the case may be.

I wasn't really paying attention. I think some Dreadmist dropped during the run, may have been the pants.

Sure druids can switch and take aggro but then who's healing? It's the shield that really helps in that sort of instance, and fade, I think.

I'm sure we can do it. But I am afraid that a priest is absolutely necessary and as Gleja is the only one at 60 so far (go Arolaide!woot!almost there!)... I'll just leave that open right there.

But don't go to sleep Gleja. We're plotting to kidnap you and use you to our greatest advantage.

Somehow I slipped into evil mode... lemme look for the button.

Paladins are actually decent tanks for baron as he is undead and they just love to rip apart pally's. Hunters are pretty good dps as they have the range and can help a little with the skells with an explosive trap and thier aoe.

The only must have imo is a priest if just for shadow protection.

Sure druids can switch and take aggro but then who's healing?


I was suggesting that as a short term solution. The Baron never paid attention to me for very long, so the druid could switch out of bear form when the tank had regained aggro.

Of course, if the tank is working properly this will never be a problem. My tank had trouble holding aggro through the whole instance.

One of the main problems, aside from no detaunt for druids, is the mana loss (which is substantial) while switching between forms to handle aggro. And once a druid gets aggro, he keeps it, unless something else stronger hits the mob or the mob dies. It's a drawback to being so versatile, I suppose.

The tank only should be focusing on the Baron, if I'm getting this correctly. And the DPS of a rogue, hunter or mage should be focused on the baron as well. The rest of the party deals with the skellies then Baron, but if the druid catches aggro, something has to get it off of them or huge loss of mana and time and then blammo.. party wipe.

As we have more druids than priests at this point, learning how to work with the druid healer structure is just about the only way we can get this done, aside from pimping out our priest until Aro hits 60.

I'm sure it'll happen. No worries. But it takes more failures to make this type of thing work than with the 'trinity' structure. Patience.

One of the main problems, aside from no detaunt for druids, is the mana loss (which is substantial) while switching between forms to handle aggro. And once a druid gets aggro, he keeps it, unless something else stronger hits the mob or the mob dies. It's a drawback to being so versatile, I suppose.


Bingo!

The only detaunt a Druid has is the Cower skill in cat form. At level 60 it takes 684 mana to shift to cat or bear form, that's a significant chunk. Plus there's the time it takes to shift into and out of forms. It's almost instant but that slight pause can be all the difference in getting that heal off in time.

It's all true, and really dumb. Druid healer is perfectly viable though, but maybe go a little higher on the dps and use a tanking warrior for those groups while having normal dps requirements and pally tanks with the priests? Sort of offset it a bit? No idea.