I'm getting enough complaints that we really need to do something about the status of guild chat. If people are turning it off, and I know a lot of people are, that's not good. Starting today, we're going to start discussing "Guild Chat Etiquette".

These are some of the things we'd like to see happen:

1.) No item link spamming. Linking an item or two is fine just don't abuse it.
2.) No quest spoilers, please! If you're working on a quest and need help figuring something out. Ask a vague question in /gchat and then take it to direct /whispers.
3.) Pls use short typing sparingly. We can spell, we know grammar, use it. That's one of the things that has always set VS apart.
4.) Keep the SQUEEE!!!! type craziness to a minimum. <3 Vir -- I'm guilty of this too.
5.) Take person-to-person chats to /whispers

Guild chat is a tool meant for everyone to enjoy and use. Recent abuse and laziness has brought it down and we need to correct it.

Thanks all!

We can't squee? Fascist Bastard!

squeeing is fine -- in small doses.

I think a special exception should be made for Valneron, who is allowed to squee all he wants....

Also, it's important to note that I have verified with Killian that discussions about animal sex (whether actual animals having sex or humans having wild sex) are still fully permitted and even encouraged!

We like our chat dirty.

I promise that for the comfort of fellow guildmates I will not squee in general guildchat. <3 Or eeee! or spam hearts. ... um... ... can I still use all caps sometimes?

All of those things are fine... in moderation. ;) <3 If you were to stop completely, I'd die a little inside.

I'm quite troubled by not only these rules, but also by the way they have been introduced.

No link spamming? Ok, I guess. Most item spamming comes from folks in groups who all link the item at the same time because they are excited. It's never been that big a deal to me, but the rule doesn't seem onerous.

No quest spoilers? Uh, maybe. Like I said earlier, where do we draw the line? If someone asks about the Theramore first-aid quest should I switch to whisper? Do we only stick to the no-spoiler rule for cutting-edge quests?

No short typing? As someone who tries to type correctly, I should probably champion this rule but I can't bring myself to do it. If this is so damn important then why have we let in people who abbreviate? Because we like them as people, probably. Are we now start glaring at them when they take a typing shortcut?

Control the squees? Good god, why? All the people in this guild went through a trial period. We knew who we were allowing in. And, thanks to the fun they have in the guild, they've invited their friends. And now they are behaving as if they are with their friends. Oh my god!

But, even if I agreed 100% with every rule you've put forth, I'd still think they were useless. Who is enforcing these things? The guild? The guild's the one doing this stuff anyway. Can I call on the prisoners at the prison to help me control crime too?

Do I get to yell at a guildie if he confuses "its" for "it's"? Can I be a dick if someone links a hat 3 times in a row? Who do I tattle to when Viraj says squee 4 times in an hour? Is it your job to enforce it, Killian? If so, when? Your schedule doesn't allow you to play with us much.

And that leads me to my main problem, how you introduced these rules. If we had discussed these things as a group, the way we handle nearly every other decision, then I'd accept the result. But coming down out of the blue and posting rules is terrible. And you did it because some 'old-school' members complained? What about all of your new-school members? Do they not get a say anymore?

I think that if you were playing with the guild you're leading, you'd be more open to discussing these problems and leading us to consensus on proper guild-chat behavior. But because you are not, it's easiest to just lay down rules based off of complaints from your closest friends.

Woof! Woof! :o

I have to say that the constant linking is grating on me, but I'm also not sure how I feel about it being a rule that needs enforcement. I particularly don't like 'no quest spoiling evar'--OK, I understand that people want to see things for themselves and don't want their experiences ruined by having everything explained, I COMPLETELY understand that. But this sounds like a gag order on discussing the game we're playing, and I am really, really uncomfortable with that.

Understand--I know people don't want every detail of the new quests set out for them. But if someone says 'zomg this quest i'm on is so neat because it involves jaina and a legion of vampires,' then I think that's OK. Or if they say 'omg in this quest you find out thrall's middle name is steve,' that's fine too. I just don't want this rule to go too far and for everyone to start getting upset about every little thing, I guess is what I'm saying.

As far as typing, while I favor proper spelling and so on, when I write in 'instant text' sessions--that is, on IM, in tells, so on and so forth, I tend to abbreviate and also set aside the rules of capitalization (apostrophes are optional also). I know the rules. I'm just too busy not dying to wolves to enforce them in instant chat. /shrug

It's all about moderation and finding a happy middle ground. As I said "Starting today, we're going to lay down a few rules and see how they go." Nothing is in stone here. I'm hoping we're all grown up enough that we can try this out calmly and give beneficial feedback. I apologize if my lack of game time, Gleja, has you feeling that it effects my ability to lead. I still do hop in and I have seen the changes in guild chat over the last few weeks. It's not just "old school" members complaining here.

I'm getting enough complaints from old timers now that we really need to do something about the status of guild chat.


Then maybe you shouldn't say that it was 'complaints from old timers' that motivated you.

Well maybe I hate doing this kind of shit and just typed out my post too quickly. Regardless, everyone knows I'm not one to just impose my will on the masses. A situation has to get fairly serious before I act on it. None of us need babysitting but guild chat needs to shape up and I think we all know it and feel similar about it.

None of us need babysitting but guild chat needs to shape up and I think we all know it and feel similar about it.


Well, no. I don't think we do. Sherica complained about typing a couple of days ago and I responded with a different point of view. And then, suddenly, here's a "type properly" rule.

This is why I would prefer we discuss the 'problems' with guild chat instead of simply posting a list of rules. Then we can find out if we actually do all agree.

For me it's more of the constant sea of green text, most of which is a conversation only involving 2-3 people about subjects that others have no interest in. Just because I have no interest in the subject certainly doesn't mean you don't have the right to talk about it, but if it is only involving two people, take it to tells or use a channel or something just to cut down on guild chat.

For the item linking, if I don't want to know what it looks like or stats or whatever, I don't click on it. That's not the point though, it just adds to the problem above. This sort of thing will go away soon as we all progress through the new stuff. I understand right now you are excited about your new bauble and want link it. The issue we've had before with item linking and 'being about the gear' was bragging and generally getting your ePeen stroked and we don't like that. There is a difference between "look what I just found <link>" and "you all suck and I am better because I have <link>"

We are all special snowflakes and have our little things we do and that's great, however something one person might find cute is murderously annoying to another.

Be excellent to each other. And... PARTY ON, DUDES!

Moderation, middle-ground. Everyone take a look at what is now being called "Guild Chat Etiquette" instead of rules. Feel free to add and comment here.

I'm not sure how people are to know if other people in the guild are interested in what they're/we're talking about.

When it comes to person-to-person chat, just use good sense. If you notice that you and another are chatting it up and no one else is contributing... take it to tells.

::scratches head:: K, let me see if I'm getting this.
--Don't talk about your gear
--Don't talk about your quests
--Don't talk about irrelevant things no one is interested in but you and person B
--Just keep your god damn mouth shut, god damn it!

That about the size of it?

yes. that is exactly it. /sarcasm

Listen, all we are trying to do is cut back a bit on the inane chatter over guild chat.

What is guild chat for, if not inane chatter ... ?

Torrin is just testy 'cause he has crabs.

There's this weird tendency on the internet to look for the worst possible interpretation of whatever's being said at any given moment. I know I'm guilty of it too -- sometimes when someone says something, and there's no 'tone of voice' to go with it, it's awfully easy to get defensive.

That said...guys, don't take this to the extreme. He isn't saying 'don't talk about your gear.' He isn't saying 'don't talk about your quests.' Don't read the worst possible interpretation into this. Granted, it could have been phrased better. Sure, maybe it could've been handled better. Oh no, Killian's not a perfect politician, get the pitchforks and torches! *grin*

Ever since BC opened, we've all been excited about the new gear. We get a new hat or chest piece, we link it in guild chat. Hey, that's cool. But when we get people linking a screenful of all their gear -- and I've seen people do that in the last couple weeks -- it can get spammy and lead to people turning off guildchat. Many of us -- myself included -- really don't want to hear spoilers for quests we haven't gotten to yet. These are brand new quests and not all of us are 70 yet. I don't want to miss out on the surprises that people ahead of me have already gotten to; I don't want to know ahead of time all the cool things that are waiting for me.

Everything in moderation. Most of us are having fun in the new areas...I think all Killian's saying is, just use some moderation on /guild, and remember that there are other people listening in. Have fun. Squee. Share your new gear. Be excited about new quests. Talk with your friends. Just don't let it dominate the channel.

See? Nothing to get upset about.

Well said, Stranger :)

And I really honestly think that the problem, overall, is this - before the expansion, we all got used to talking about pretty much anything EXCEPT the game itself. Sure we'd occasionally mention something in the game like gearing up for an instance run or a raid, or talk about Mageprincess, etc. but most of the time the chatter revolved less around the game and more about the people IN the game.

We're all so excited about TBC, though, and rightfully so - Blizzard did a DAMN good job with this expansion, far beyond anyones expectations - that we're talking about the GAME for a change rather than other miscellaneous topics. When was the last time we got to discuss Zan being totally plastered or any number of oddball topics?

In retrospect, I know I've posted on this topic a few times now, and I think Torrin hit the nail on the head above. The fact of the matter is that it's just a matter of time until guild chat goes back to normal. In the meantime, the only real problem that I've seen in the past few weeks is when someone suddenly links a LOT of items. If someone gets something damn cool from an instance, link it! Why not! If people don't want spoilers, they shouldn't click on it, just as Torrin also pointed out. But linking 6 or 8 items in a row is both annoying and unnecessary spam and should be moderated.

Other than that, if we go back to talking about Agnes breasts, I think we'll all be happier. :)