Hi guys,

I realized in the last few weeks of raiding, VS'er are not raiding often with warriors. So to improve VS raiding skills, I would like to make this post to explain Vs'er how Lenlador, as a Full Protection Warrior, is working in raiding situation.

1) Lenlador as a MAIN TANK

Rage System
First, you need to know as a protection spec'ed, Warrior build his rage mainly by getting hit. I got a talent that give me more rage while hitting in defensive stance but with a very poor dps and no dmg skill, rage still very hard to get by this way. I also got a skills (Shield Specialization) that give me rage each time I block some dmg. And finaly I got Bloodrage, that skill generate rage at the cost of hp.

Threat
By getting hit, warrior will get rage and will be able to use his skills to gain threat. That's the reason the raid leader will often tell you to let the warrior a few seconds before attacking or landing you mass dps on a boss. A good tip, wait 1 or 2 sunder armors before attacking and when you see 3-5 sunder armors you can begin to land your normal to mass dps.

Most of the time, when the fight start, warriors don't have rage , if you start attacking right away you have a good chance to get the aggro. If the target is immune to taunt and you get the aggro...you are dead and you'll probly wipe your group. Again, with no rage, warrior can't land any skills, so no threat is generated and we enter in a complicated vicious wheel: No hit = No rage = No threat to get the aggro back. When we fight againts a tauntable target, I can get the aggro back by taunting, but be gentle on dps, taunt put you first on the aggro list, it's not a skill that generate threat (according KTM) so I have only few sec to pop my skills to stay first on the aggro. And the taunt have a 8s cooldown.

The first thing I'm doing in a fight, is poping my Sunder Armor untill I get 5 on my target. I'll sometimes hit Shield Slam between them to get a little threat boost. Once the Sunder Armors are all there, Im scrolling my skills in that priority or so: Shield Block, Shield Slam, Devastate, Revenge, Thunderclap, Demorilizing and sometimes Heroic Strike. All of those skills give threat. Taunt is only good if you lose the aggro.

Meat Shield Skills
Protection warrior got few improvement with talent: AC bonus(10%), HP bonus(Sta), defense bonus, shield block bonus, absorb dmg bonus and STR bonus.

Few of my most important tanking Skills are:
- Shield BlocK (increase chance to block 75% for 5sec or 2 hits)
- Revenge (occure after a block, 45% stun for 3sec, threat)
- Concussion blow (stun 5sec)
- Shield Slam (instant dmg depending of your shield block value, dispell 1 magic, high threat)
- Sunder Armor (decrease armor value of target, high threat)
- Devastate (instant dmg - 50% weapon dmg, renew sunder armor, threat x nbr of SA)
- Heroic Strike (increase normal atk by 208 + 75 if target daze, high threat) Slow skill

Warrior Vs Group Target
OMG that the nightmare of all warriors. You need to have a very disciplined group to pass throught this situation. The only tips I can give you... assist on the main target (skull). This is the only way you can help your tank. A good tank will try first to get the aggro on the Skull then will switch to other target to hit them with sunder armor. We can try thunderclap but the threat generated is very poor. We can try Whirlwind too, it will help but not for long. I got a mouseover hotkey that give me the possibility to hit target with instant skills like Sunder Armor without changing target. REALLY usefull.

2) Lenlador as OFFTANK

No a Easy Job
One word...impossible. I tried everything. A lot of peoples think offtank have a second place... its not true. IMO offtank is more important then your MT. He need to be ready at all time to get the aggro on adds and taking the aggro when the MT die. Its the reason a offtank should alway be the one who can stay second on the aggro list. Like I explain earlier, if I don't get hit, I don't get rage to use my skills so it's impossible to compete againts DPS class and I will never be able to stay above my healers if I can't use my skill. Even if I dual wielding in berserker stance, I can barely stay 5-6 againts target in Karazan (according KTM). Thats the reason I prefere to MT most of the time, not cuz I hate offtanking but cuz I can't really help my group when times come. Its a very complicated job for a protection warrior. I read on forum an hybrid warrior (Prot/arm or fury) can do a good offtank job since he can get few more dps but main tanking in place as karazan is now impossible.

RAIDING
The important things to know and I think everyone know that, your both tanks (MT and Offtank) are the pillar of your group, if your tank die... everyone is dead. So it's really important to learn how to work with your tanks... not againts them. Know them, know what to do cuz playing with a warrior as a MT need a little bit more micro management.

So this is it. I hope this will help you next time you'll group with a warrior.

Be free to give your suggestions and at your turn, feel free to give us your +/- of your class for raiding so we can learn how to play together.

There is a section in Wiki where Rinader give a very good and more completed explanation. Feel free to read it, there is good info too. This is a short version of his post and more an explanation on how Im trying to do it with Len.


(PS. My english is very bad, don't be shy to correct me, I need it hehe.)

Yep, since we don't have very many warriors that main tank at this point it took Len and I a minute to get into sync. Since druid threat is based on dps I had to slow up while he established aggro all while staying above healers on the meters. Once we got into a rythm everything went fine. That being said we could always use more warrior tanks in Karazhan :)

A couple hints that I can think of:

If you have a pet on the MT target, turn off your pet's taunt. If the pet steals aggro, the tank's rage generation plummets. I don't think there's anything wrong with having the pet add dps, just don't let the bugger taunt! Use the taunt for off-tanking if that's your pet's responsibility. With some pets, it also can help keep focus available for other abilities and that's a good thing if DPS goes up but aggro goes down.

Your MT may or may not try different stances for different situations. The highest aggro generating stance is supposed to be Defensive. However, occasionaly a tank my switch to Battle or Berserker stance. Depending on the battle at hand, some talents are only available in certain stances. If the tank wants Mocking Blow then he will need to change to Battle stance. The point is, try to pay attention to the stance of the MT so that you know her aggro potential. Berserker stance has the potential to generate more aggro against a group of MOBs but won't generate much against any particular MOB. Battle stance can help concentrate on one MOB while doing a little more DPS against that one MOB. Mocking Blow is the "Oh crap" replacement for taunt but has a much longer cooldown, so care is more important when manageing aggro.

Perhaps, IMO, the single most important thing to understand when dealing with aggro is that if you gain aggro over the tank and you shouldn't have, STOP dealing dps immediately! Learn your classes aggro. For example, if you are a priest, don't Power Word: Shield or you gain a massive amount of aggro above the amount you already have.


Most people know these things, but if you don't then this is extremely important to learn as soon as possible when grouping. :)