Boards › Forum › Kara Progression
Foxfyr
12982 posts
10-22-2007 6:20pm
: Hi Everyone!
You may have noticed that there hasn't been a Kara sign-up for this coming week posted yet. In the last month, we've run into a bit of a Kara progression wall and we realize that we need to make some changes.
Victorious Secret Casual Raiding
VS is a casual guild, as we all know and love and we plan to always be that VS. However, many VSers want to see everything that WoW has to offer. This leads us to a bit of a conundrum. We want to keep with the VS fun but we also want to go all the way. The question is, how do we make the push into "uber" guild territory and not alienate any of our friends and family. Good question, eh? Well, here's what we've come up with:
1st - HEROIC WEEKS!
A big part of clearing Kara and moving forward is experience and gear. Many of us are hurting in the latter -- Adelyse included so to help us gear up (literally) for our big push, we're going to have two weeks of crazy heroic runs. We're going to try and have runs going every night. For those that aren't quite to the heroic level yet, if you're close, let us know what rep you need and we'll try and get you there. We all need some stinkin' badges so let's do it and have some masochistic fun!
2nd - New VS Raiding
Many VSers really want to see more content and enjoy putting in the work to improve their characters. For some, the outside work is just as much a part of the game and is just as fun as playing the game itself. We also have VSers that play the game just to play the game and don't have the time to dig up how to increase their hit rating by 4% or increase their healing by 27. Then there are also some of us that just play for the social aspect and could care less about how their character is geared -- it just needs to match ;) . All of these are great ways to play and totally 100% accepted by VS. The problem is playing the balancing act to keep everyone happy.
We've been very focused on being fair to everyone and giving all VSers equal opportunities to go to Kara. This, unfortunately, has led to us not being fair to the people that want to see more content and have put a tonne of effort into making their characters as strong as possible. The early Kara encounters can be walked through with a couple of really strong characters pulling the weight but as we've seen with the Shade of Aran, and soon The Prince, and Netherspite we need a full raid of experienced and well-geared players to pull it off.
One of our concerns when we were getting more and more people keyed for Kara was that we didn't want a bunch of newer people to come in and do the easy bosses and then have the veterans come in and skip all the easy stuff. This is less of a concern now because most people have seen most of the encounters. So, what we're going to have to start doing is giving the VSers heavily invested in their characters a fighting chance at downing the later bosses. To do this, we have to return to our original plans of limiting the number of fresh faces every week. This will also extend to those that are way undergeared and/or less experienced -- we've all been there.
Everyone in VS will still get their chance at ALL of the boss fights in Kara and future raids but as we're doing three night raid weeks, we'll be building the 3rd night of Kara around those that have the experience and the gear to keep making progress. For weeks that we have enough for two groups, we'll balance the groups out best we can but we'll have one group that is better equiped for progress -- never count out the VS underdog group because they love the upset! There will be a lot of rotating all around so you definitely won't be seeing the same 10 people being the "progress" group every week. Please know that we're going to do all that we can to help everyone who wants to see every boss in WoW see them but those that want it are going to have to put in the work.
Now this is very important, at NO time should anyone feel they have to change how they play. VS will still be VS. If you want to keep playing how you've always played and don't care for the changes happening, please don't feel any pressure that you need to change with the winds. We're just saying that those that really really want to beat down the likes of Netherspite NOW opposed to later, is going to have to be at the top of their game.
3rd - Going Forward
Our group of "progress makers" is constantly getting bigger so if you're serious about wanting to progress in Kara and beyond, and want to be part of the later fights, have a look at the heroic loot tables on WoWWiki and find out which ones you want to hit. Look through the Enchanting Wiki and find out what you need. Peruse the Jewelcrafting Wiki and order gems today! Find out which faction sells the head enchant glyph you need and buy it! This is the time to ask questions about builds, gear, or fight strategies.
Let's get the VS progression chart moving!
Hurray for Heroic Weeks!!!! Let's get 'em started!
You may have noticed that there hasn't been a Kara sign-up for this coming week posted yet. In the last month, we've run into a bit of a Kara progression wall and we realize that we need to make some changes.
Victorious Secret Casual Raiding
VS is a casual guild, as we all know and love and we plan to always be that VS. However, many VSers want to see everything that WoW has to offer. This leads us to a bit of a conundrum. We want to keep with the VS fun but we also want to go all the way. The question is, how do we make the push into "uber" guild territory and not alienate any of our friends and family. Good question, eh? Well, here's what we've come up with:
1st - HEROIC WEEKS!
A big part of clearing Kara and moving forward is experience and gear. Many of us are hurting in the latter -- Adelyse included so to help us gear up (literally) for our big push, we're going to have two weeks of crazy heroic runs. We're going to try and have runs going every night. For those that aren't quite to the heroic level yet, if you're close, let us know what rep you need and we'll try and get you there. We all need some stinkin' badges so let's do it and have some masochistic fun!
2nd - New VS Raiding
Many VSers really want to see more content and enjoy putting in the work to improve their characters. For some, the outside work is just as much a part of the game and is just as fun as playing the game itself. We also have VSers that play the game just to play the game and don't have the time to dig up how to increase their hit rating by 4% or increase their healing by 27. Then there are also some of us that just play for the social aspect and could care less about how their character is geared -- it just needs to match ;) . All of these are great ways to play and totally 100% accepted by VS. The problem is playing the balancing act to keep everyone happy.
We've been very focused on being fair to everyone and giving all VSers equal opportunities to go to Kara. This, unfortunately, has led to us not being fair to the people that want to see more content and have put a tonne of effort into making their characters as strong as possible. The early Kara encounters can be walked through with a couple of really strong characters pulling the weight but as we've seen with the Shade of Aran, and soon The Prince, and Netherspite we need a full raid of experienced and well-geared players to pull it off.
One of our concerns when we were getting more and more people keyed for Kara was that we didn't want a bunch of newer people to come in and do the easy bosses and then have the veterans come in and skip all the easy stuff. This is less of a concern now because most people have seen most of the encounters. So, what we're going to have to start doing is giving the VSers heavily invested in their characters a fighting chance at downing the later bosses. To do this, we have to return to our original plans of limiting the number of fresh faces every week. This will also extend to those that are way undergeared and/or less experienced -- we've all been there.
Everyone in VS will still get their chance at ALL of the boss fights in Kara and future raids but as we're doing three night raid weeks, we'll be building the 3rd night of Kara around those that have the experience and the gear to keep making progress. For weeks that we have enough for two groups, we'll balance the groups out best we can but we'll have one group that is better equiped for progress -- never count out the VS underdog group because they love the upset! There will be a lot of rotating all around so you definitely won't be seeing the same 10 people being the "progress" group every week. Please know that we're going to do all that we can to help everyone who wants to see every boss in WoW see them but those that want it are going to have to put in the work.
Now this is very important, at NO time should anyone feel they have to change how they play. VS will still be VS. If you want to keep playing how you've always played and don't care for the changes happening, please don't feel any pressure that you need to change with the winds. We're just saying that those that really really want to beat down the likes of Netherspite NOW opposed to later, is going to have to be at the top of their game.
3rd - Going Forward
Our group of "progress makers" is constantly getting bigger so if you're serious about wanting to progress in Kara and beyond, and want to be part of the later fights, have a look at the heroic loot tables on WoWWiki and find out which ones you want to hit. Look through the Enchanting Wiki and find out what you need. Peruse the Jewelcrafting Wiki and order gems today! Find out which faction sells the head enchant glyph you need and buy it! This is the time to ask questions about builds, gear, or fight strategies.
Let's get the VS progression chart moving!
Hurray for Heroic Weeks!!!! Let's get 'em started!
Rastus
6166 posts
10-22-2007 6:32pm
Sounds good to me! Thanks to the officers for taking the time to worry about this, for always keeping an eye on what VS is about, and for communicating with us so well.
Sapphyre
12995 posts
Posted a bunch of heroics so go sign up!!
Note that I have not posted any for Caverns of Time. They are crazy hard. Crazy, I tell you! And I don't want people getting discouraged. Perhaps we can try it late Friday or Saturday night if people are up for it.
Saturday will be dedicated to those that need rep to get to revered. Don't be shy, tell us what you need.
And Plasmo, if you would be so kind as to post some heroics for the night owls, that would be wonderful!
Note that I have not posted any for Caverns of Time. They are crazy hard. Crazy, I tell you! And I don't want people getting discouraged. Perhaps we can try it late Friday or Saturday night if people are up for it.
Saturday will be dedicated to those that need rep to get to revered. Don't be shy, tell us what you need.
And Plasmo, if you would be so kind as to post some heroics for the night owls, that would be wonderful!
Shadian
3317 posts
Very good post, Fox. It's so easy to get keyed for Karazhan that a lot of people (myself included) have just forgotten about Heroics. If we can all just be honest and admit where we need improvement then I don't believe this will be a big change. A tank could easily think, "if that healer just had a slightly bigger mana pool we'd have been ok". The healer at the exact same moment could be thinking, "if that tank just had a little more health and avoidance we'd have been ok". All while the dps is thinking, "if the tank had more health and the healer had more mana we'd have been ok".
I think we all just need to look at our gear, do the research, and start kicking ass. Heroics offer a challenge that fits right in between simple 5-mans and the entry-level 10-man raids. So, not only will gear improve but skill levels will also. I think this is a step in the right direction without completely changing the values we've established in the guild.
I think we all just need to look at our gear, do the research, and start kicking ass. Heroics offer a challenge that fits right in between simple 5-mans and the entry-level 10-man raids. So, not only will gear improve but skill levels will also. I think this is a step in the right direction without completely changing the values we've established in the guild.
Plasmo
910 posts
10-22-2007 7:19pm
Late-night Heroics are also posted. We've had a ton of people on late-night, we should be able to fill a couple groups each night. BADGES!
Oh, and I'm certainly up for Heroic BM or Durn sometime during the weekend, if there's interest. :)
Oh, and I'm certainly up for Heroic BM or Durn sometime during the weekend, if there's interest. :)
Ingomar
1030 posts
10-22-2007 7:36pm
If we can all just be honest and admit where we need improvement then I don't believe this will be a big change.
I think we all just need to look at our gear, do the research, and start kicking ass. Heroics offer a challenge that fits right in between simple 5-mans and the entry-level 10-man raids. So, not only will gear improve but skill levels will also. I think this is a step in the right direction without completely changing the values we've established int he guild.
I think Shadian nails this here. And it's hard to be honest. Please do it. PLEASE. Just think really, really hard about whether you are expecting other players to assume a larger part of the participation in any given fight so that you won't have to. This is how I knew. On Illhoof, I was all, "Well, I can't heal the tank for enough to keep him alive AND help with anyone who is sacrificed, so I will JUST heal the tank, and let FROLIC handle EVERYTHING ELSE if Aro is sacrificed." Then my shoulder angel was like, "... so we don't like Frolic? I thought we LIKED Frolic. Why would we do that to Frolic?"
Why, indeed. We do like Frolic, so we do not want to put that kind of shit on Frolic. So we are only signing up for entry runs until we are not still wearing shitty greens, and we have acquired the primal life necessary to enchant our equipment. As Fox asked us to do. A long time ago.
P.S. : I'm sorry, cohealers. :(
It was not a fun thing for me to realize that my mana pool was not cutting it, but when I am out of mana when my cohealers are only down half, it is time to get some more +heal and +int so I won't harelip my friends. That, I think, is the MOST important part. DO NOT HARELIP YOUR FRIENDS. It will make them resent you.
I say this as someone who was VIOLENTLY opposed to the idea back in the day, of someone taking over for the upper level bosses when I was on the entry run. Now, I only WANT to do entry runs, until I am better geared with the stuff FROM those entry runs, thus making me NOT harelip my friends in fights where I'm struggling just to keep up.
I want to go, but not at the expense of wiping my friends over and over because I can't keep up.
I think we all just need to look at our gear, do the research, and start kicking ass. Heroics offer a challenge that fits right in between simple 5-mans and the entry-level 10-man raids. So, not only will gear improve but skill levels will also. I think this is a step in the right direction without completely changing the values we've established int he guild.
I think Shadian nails this here. And it's hard to be honest. Please do it. PLEASE. Just think really, really hard about whether you are expecting other players to assume a larger part of the participation in any given fight so that you won't have to. This is how I knew. On Illhoof, I was all, "Well, I can't heal the tank for enough to keep him alive AND help with anyone who is sacrificed, so I will JUST heal the tank, and let FROLIC handle EVERYTHING ELSE if Aro is sacrificed." Then my shoulder angel was like, "... so we don't like Frolic? I thought we LIKED Frolic. Why would we do that to Frolic?"
Why, indeed. We do like Frolic, so we do not want to put that kind of shit on Frolic. So we are only signing up for entry runs until we are not still wearing shitty greens, and we have acquired the primal life necessary to enchant our equipment. As Fox asked us to do. A long time ago.
P.S. : I'm sorry, cohealers. :(
It was not a fun thing for me to realize that my mana pool was not cutting it, but when I am out of mana when my cohealers are only down half, it is time to get some more +heal and +int so I won't harelip my friends. That, I think, is the MOST important part. DO NOT HARELIP YOUR FRIENDS. It will make them resent you.
I say this as someone who was VIOLENTLY opposed to the idea back in the day, of someone taking over for the upper level bosses when I was on the entry run. Now, I only WANT to do entry runs, until I am better geared with the stuff FROM those entry runs, thus making me NOT harelip my friends in fights where I'm struggling just to keep up.
I want to go, but not at the expense of wiping my friends over and over because I can't keep up.
Rapskallion
2332 posts
10-22-2007 7:47pm
I would say, much to the dismay of my wife, I want to be part of the progression group. Though I have much work to do. I hope to be able to offer real help to guild progression by the new year.
Foxfyr
12982 posts
10-22-2007 8:19pm
Me!
Umm
Are you in the right thread?
Umm
Are you in the right thread?
Hecktigol
4417 posts
10-22-2007 8:48pm
Umm
Are you in the right thread?
Rap had a question in his comment before he edited it.
Are you in the right thread?
Rap had a question in his comment before he edited it.
Foxfyr
12982 posts
10-22-2007 8:53pm
Oh!
Lux_Lisbon
11443 posts
Heh. Make me look CRAZY, why don't you?!
Rapskallion
2332 posts
10-22-2007 9:06pm
Heh. Make me look CRAZY, why don't you?!
Sorry to edit out most of my post. After seeing the other thread about Rep Saturday the information just seems irrelevant in this one.
Sorry to edit out most of my post. After seeing the other thread about Rep Saturday the information just seems irrelevant in this one.
Frenial
6901 posts
10-22-2007 9:11pm
Heh. Make me look CRAZY, why don't you?!
True, that's best left to you. :)
True, that's best left to you. :)
Lux_Lisbon
11443 posts
Oh you'll regret that one, Sweatervest!
Frenial
6901 posts
10-22-2007 10:01pm
Don't make me bring out the screenshots, Agnes.
A broom.
A mask.
The elemental plateau.
Need I say more?
A broom.
A mask.
The elemental plateau.
Need I say more?
Lux_Lisbon
11443 posts
Carry on.
demetriana
1730 posts
10-23-2007 3:33am
ah, reading this, i miss playing my eulsbit so much
come december i'll be back in full effect bb
anyways
here is the difference, to my mind, between an excellent player, and a mediocre/bad player:
excellent players admit mistakes. excellent players take blame. i'm the first to admit that i get reaaalll defensive about the game in generale sometimes, but when i make a mistake, i say so. it's okay to fuck up. you just have to A) own it and B) work on it. thas all.
come december i'll be back in full effect bb
anyways
here is the difference, to my mind, between an excellent player, and a mediocre/bad player:
excellent players admit mistakes. excellent players take blame. i'm the first to admit that i get reaaalll defensive about the game in generale sometimes, but when i make a mistake, i say so. it's okay to fuck up. you just have to A) own it and B) work on it. thas all.
lenlador
192 posts
10-23-2007 10:13am
hehe I just finished working my over night shift. I begin to work normal shift...day night ...for the next 6 weeks. So I'll be able to sign up again. I'll try to catch few heroics instances.
Im just sad about Kara cuz Im at 1k from exalted....1k to get my defense ring hehe. But I understand the meaning of this and I think Fox are totally right doing it.
Im just sad about Kara cuz Im at 1k from exalted....1k to get my defense ring hehe. But I understand the meaning of this and I think Fox are totally right doing it.
Lemmin
2078 posts
10-23-2007 11:13am
Does anyone know if there's a better/easier way of finding upgrades than opening every boss page for every instance at wowwiki? I started trying to do that last night and only got through Hellfire and half of Coilfang before my eyes started to cross. I've been looking at the Armory and wow-loot.com, but I'm not sure whether either is completely accurate.
If they are accurate, do I need to start farming cloth to wear to Kara? 'Cause Armory and wow-loot are showing me virtually nothing in terms of better leather that's attainable through anything other than Kara and up.
If they are accurate, do I need to start farming cloth to wear to Kara? 'Cause Armory and wow-loot are showing me virtually nothing in terms of better leather that's attainable through anything other than Kara and up.
Fealane
312 posts
10-23-2007 12:45pm
I just wanted to say that if any healers need pointers on Healing or gear let me know. I'll try my best to help out.
I know that Homereker has been doing great in improving his gear lately.. so kuddos to him. I talked to him a couple of time and told him that he can check my gear on Armory if he wants to what kinda gear i have or talents.
I know that Homereker has been doing great in improving his gear lately.. so kuddos to him. I talked to him a couple of time and told him that he can check my gear on Armory if he wants to what kinda gear i have or talents.
Arolaide
2380 posts
10-23-2007 1:13pm
Does anyone know if there's a better/easier way of finding upgrades than opening every boss page for every instance at wowwiki?
Go to your armory page, and when you hover over a gear slot a little flash tab pops out that says 'Find an upgrade.' Click it, and the armory will show you every single piece of loot you can use to upgrade that slot, and if you click on one of those it will tell you where it drops and how often.
Go to your armory page, and when you hover over a gear slot a little flash tab pops out that says 'Find an upgrade.' Click it, and the armory will show you every single piece of loot you can use to upgrade that slot, and if you click on one of those it will tell you where it drops and how often.
Hecktigol
4417 posts
10-23-2007 1:14pm
Lyr, I was doing the same yesterday. Short of farming 15 primal airs and a million other mats the only way I can find an upgrade is to do raid or get badges. So heroics here I come :). I was using wowarmory and clicking the find an upgrade. Only problem with that is for some reason they show leather in with my mail. I was all excited I found something cooler and then was like damn it, it is leather, lol. Also most of the upgrades I found on there outside of raid stuff I loose some hit rating. Do other people carry around a set for crazy dps and one for dps and hit rating?
Foxfyr
12982 posts
10-23-2007 1:16pm
Lyranne: I believe I have read that there is a shortage of Moonkin drops. I think there will be more in Zul'Amon but I'm not entirely sure about that. I'll see what I can find for you.
Lenlador, and others: I know it says that this is my post, but its something that the officers have all been working on together. We'll be getting back to Kara shortly, as well as Gruul's Lair!
Lenlador, and others: I know it says that this is my post, but its something that the officers have all been working on together. We'll be getting back to Kara shortly, as well as Gruul's Lair!
Rinader
2208 posts
10-23-2007 1:17pm
Also, if you want to do a little more work, you can look up higher end guilds. ( http://wowjutsu.com/us/eitrigg/ ) Look up your class and check their armory profiles. Then research their gear on wowhead, thott, allakhazam...
Hecktigol
4417 posts
10-23-2007 1:22pm
Also, if you want to do a little more work, you can look up higher end guilds. ( http://wowjutsu.com/us/eitrigg/ ) Look up your class and check their armory profiles. Then research their gear on wowhead, thott, allakhazam...
I just checked that and some crazy hunter had this. Halberd of Desolation I never even knew that existed. That might be the coolest looking thing ever.
I just checked that and some crazy hunter had this. Halberd of Desolation I never even knew that existed. That might be the coolest looking thing ever.
