Now that both the early and the night crew have managed to down the eagle boss, I was thinking it might be better if we schedule separate ZA runs. This would allow people who already have the gear they need from Kara to give up a spot in that run without sacrificing a chance to go to ZA.

Also, some people enjoy the "breaking" of an instance more than others and might prefer to simply do Kara and wait until later for ZA.

Just and idea...

-K

With two weekly runs going (Kara/ZA Early and Late) it doesn't leave a lot of free time for people to schedule other 5 man runs as it is. And the presence on the forums is only a section of the guild that regularly plays. For people that don't enjoy Raiding or aren't to that point yet its a little discouraging when everyone is in Karazhan every night of the week. Also, we really need the upgrades from those last few bosses for some people to kick some ass in ZA.

That being said, maybe we could make the run four days long or add a separate ZA night at the beginning of the week so that when it resets halfway through the third Kara Night can still head in there. The main problem I'd see with that is most of our raid leaders would want to get in on that first night... I know I would.

We'll discuss it!

With two weekly runs going (Kara/ZA Early and Late) it doesn't leave a lot of free time for people to schedule other 5 man runs as it is.

Oh I should explain myself a little bit better - I was thinking we are close to clearing Kara in two nights, so then we could make the third night a separate ZA run instead of an extension of the Kara run.

Personally I don't mind either way, just wondering if it might be better for others...

Oh I should explain myself a little bit better - I was thinking we are close to clearing Kara in two nights, so then we could make the third night a separate ZA run instead of an extension of the Kara run.

Personally I don't mind either way, just wondering if it might be better for others...

That's what we've been trying to do. But the last couple of weeks have been 3-day clears, instead of the 2-day clears we were getting at the start of the month.

That's what we've been trying to do. But the last couple of weeks have been 3-day clears, instead of the 2-day clears we were getting at the start of the month.

Ah... well it's not a big deal for me. Like I said, I'm fine with the way things work. Perhaps it's something we can keep in mind for the future.

Honestly, the only reason I even mentioned it is that I felt a little bad that because I still needed Kara gear, I automatically got a ZA spot. But sometimes I just worry too much... ;)

I actually agree with Kharthis, but for a different reason....and at the same time, I'm over here with Fox.

We don't want people to get tired of running just Kara. I can remember, before BC, pretty much all we ever did was run ZG...and there were more than a few of us who were tired of even hearing about ZG after a while. It's good to have things like ZA, Gruul's, and heroic nights, because they're a different challenge and it spreads the fun around.

I'm not saying I'm complaining -- I'm having fun doing whatever. But I do see that many of the people who've been through Kara a plenty are now focusing on alts or radically respeccing, and I don't want to see people get bored. When people get bored, they start wandering off, and I like my guildmates just where they are.

That said...like Fox, I want to make sure we don't forget those people who are still coming along, like Araota...or those people who are contributing lots to guild runs but haven't really done Kara, like Shaerl. We still have people whose mains haven't Been There, Done That. If all of us are in Kara and ZA every single day, then we're not sparing a moment for our guildmates who may need some help. It's important to me that I not leave people behind just because I'm seriously uber omg (did I mention my awesome dps yet? Dude?).

It's a tricky balance. I want to move on past Kara, too. I want to see what there is to see. I want to go places I've never been and kill things I've never killed and stomp on their bloody corpses. But I also want to make sure that my friends aren't bored and frustrated and going 'Hey, wait, I want to kill Nightbane someday, too...' So y'know, what do you do?

My thought is there has been too much concentration on kara for some time now. If you look at the average gear and the number of shards coming out of those kara runs, the guild could be going after ZA and really anything post-kara (although the 25-mans are logistic headaches).

I'm pretty well burnt out on kara, and need some new content. I really like the atmosphere here, but I'm going to go on break now until some new content shows up in WoW.

Frenial and Khros can reach me if you are short on a run from time to time, but for the most part I'm going to play Eve. Look me up there if you like, my toon name is 'Jonas Mack'.

There are some instances I just enjoy running over and over. BWL was a good example of it. My old guild did it every single week, even while they were busy conquering Naxx. Same for Kara. I enjoyed the instance so much and took every opportunity to go. I don't mind taking Frolic to Kara every week, even though there is very little she needs. If we need one of my alts for the run, I'll take them instead. I will keep signing up for Kara until we stop doing it! I just enjoy raiding a lot. Now we are starting ZA, and I'll do that until we stop. It's all fun to me!

I will keep signing up for Kara until we stop doing it! I just enjoy raiding a lot. Now we are starting ZA, and I'll do that until we stop. It's all fun to me!

My name is Raps, and I endorse the above quoted message.

Hey, I'm still waiting for y'all to get cracking and grab me my sword from Archimonde.

That aside, I've been to Kara nine kersnillion times, but I've only downed the Prince five times and I just saw Nightbane for the first time this last run. I'm not one of the crazy ex-raider latenight krewe, so there's still some stuff in our regular runs that I'm not tired of.

I think that Stranger has a great point, too - some of the people in our guild aren't all up inz Kara or ZA every week, but still go around in the five-mans or the unusual zones, and might like to hang out with all of us. To suddenly start seeing NOTHING but ten-mans posted is ... probably not the best idea.

On that note... let's try to help some folks out with 5-mans this week, shall we? Between ZA and Ony and Gruul, I am not sure we can squeeze in too much Kara anyway.

In future, we will definitely try to do some more ZA. We promise. :D

I'm definitely not srs about raiding either, and will be sad if by the time I'm done being A SRS AKTRSS the guild has thrown it over for ZA, which I totally and completely hate.

But hey, that's more slots for the tragically bored ex-raiders in ZA, so everyone wins.

Awww, but ZA is fun! It's mad crazy, but a blast. Ing must do ZA!

For what it's worth, I'm still digging Kara like crazy. It's one I can't get enough of. And frankly, until we can one shot every boss in a full run with no wipes on trash, it's evidently still a challenge to us as a guild.

I love most of the 5-mans (ironicly, Coilfang is the only set of instances that annoys me, I don't know why) and will happily help people on regular or heroic for any five man that is short a tank (or is desperate for light-weight kitty DPS).

This would allow people who already have the gear they need from Kara to give up a spot in that run without sacrificing a chance to go to ZA.

One thing I would like to clarify, in my above statement I wasn't saying that I was done with Kara! I still need stuff from there and I also am still having a lot of fun helping others get their stuff!

Specifically, I was thinking for example that someone like Jorack or Brendar might say "Yeah, let Kharthis have my spot in Kara cause he still needs stuff there" but by doing so Kharthis would also automatically get the spot in ZA, which didn't seem fair to me.

Anyway I didn't mean for this to post to be anything other than a suggestion so that people don't get "left out." No one said anything to me to initiate this, it was just something I was thinking about.

Am I making sense?

One thing I would like to clarify, in my above statement I wasn't saying that I was done with Kara! I still need stuff from there and I also am still having a lot of fun helping others get their stuff!

Specifically, I was thinking for example that someone like Jorack or Brendar might say "Yeah, let Kharthis have my spot in Kara cause he still needs stuff there" but by doing so Kharthis would also automatically get the spot in ZA, which didn't seem fair to me.

Anyway I didn't mean for this to post to be anything other than a suggestion so that people don't get "left out." No one said anything to me to initiate this, it was just something I was thinking about.

Am I making sense?
What Kharthis is saying is really my only concern with the standard ZA scheduling being night 3 of Kara or even a night 4 of Kara. That means that in order to go to ZA, I have to commit myself to raiding 3 (or 4) nights a week. But at this point, the only thing I really need in Kara is my glove token, although there are a couple of other things I would roll on if they dropped. That makes me pretty inclined to give my spot in later runs to people who need gear there, but that seems to put me out of the running for a ZA run if it happens -- and the first chest in ZA drops great moonkin pants that will be on my need list until or unless I get a pants token from Gruul.

So that is my quandary...I don't always have 3/4 nights a week to devote to playing WoW, and giving other people priority to try to get things they need or want seems like it would put me out of the running to get a drop I want.

You guys all worry too much.


If there is a specific night of raiding that you would like to attend and don't have time for the others say so on the thread and we will do our best to accomodate you.

Making ZA the optional third night just makes things MUCH easier from a scheduling point of view. But like this week we'll do our best to to have a night at the beginning of the week for ZA if possible.

I think our experience last night proves that we're still a little undergeared for that third boss encounter. It is supposed to be tuned for T6 geared raids I believe.

Specifically, I was thinking for example that someone like Jorack or Brendar might say "Yeah, let Kharthis have my spot in Kara cause he still needs stuff there" but by doing so Kharthis would also automatically get the spot in ZA, which didn't seem fair to me.


It all becomes clearer now. Though, one thing to keep in mind is that usually each run of a three night Kara run can have different people in the run. So if Kara is cleared in two nights, the group for ZA on the third can easily be set independently. Now if all that's left in Kara after two nights is one or two quick bosses, the third night may get stickier. However, there's nothing that stops the Raid Leaders from having one group make-up for Kara, then a second for ZA.

In the end, I can see merit to scheduling ZA as night three of Kara or independently. It's just a matter of setting expectations.

I agree with this, with one caveat.

I, too, have pretty much everything I need from Kara (at least I will once that bitch drops my witchwand! ...and the Prince gives me my damn cloak!). I hate taking up spots in a Kara raid that could be taken by up-and-coming healers who still need stuff...and like you, I don't always have 3-4 nights a week to sit on WoW.

The caveat is this: sometimes if I don't go, we're short on healers. Or, more importantly, we end up with too few people who are experienced in Kara. In order for there to be a successful Kara run, there can only be so many people who've never done Aran before, or never done Prince, or never done Netherspite or Nightbane. You start getting noob tanks who don't know how to drag Maiden paired with noob healers who don't know how to dispel her holy fire, and suddenly you don't have a two-night Kara clear anymore, you've got frustration.

So...again, it's a matter of finding a middle ground. I like the idea of scheduling ZA separately from Kara. Not everyone wants to go to both. But people who want to go to ZA shouldn't abandon Kara completely for the New Hotness...and people who like Kara and ZA shouldn't abandon the 5-mans. We're a big guild, we can spread the wealth around some.

I think our experience last night proves that we're still a little undergeared for that third boss encounter. It is supposed to be tuned for T6 geared raids I believe.

I'd still like another shot at that painful pull. Hate scouts, hate!

I think our experience last night proves that we're still a little undergeared for that third boss encounter. It is supposed to be tuned for T6 geared raids I believe.

As the gear in there is equivalent to SSC/TK stuff (aka, T5), ZA is designed for those folks in T4-ish gear.

Most people think that T6 is required if you want a shot at doing the full timed event. That I can understand.

I'd still like another shot at that painful pull. Hate scouts, hate!

Taking the right fork and going through the eggs is a little longer physically, but has way fewer scouts (I think two spawn points? maybe three) and no pulls like the ones through the hidey-huts.

I'm also enjoying the fact that there is a new group of people that are seeing what its like to do things that you don't need to help gear up the others.


Keep in mind:

Everyone really appreciates the help from you guys!

Taking the right fork and going through the eggs is a little longer physically, but has way fewer scouts (I think two spawn points? maybe three) and no pulls like the ones through the hidey-huts.

I looked briefly into that room and it looked very crowded. Good to know that it may actually be the easier route. We'll try it next time!

You guys all worry too much.

Yes, I'll tell you right now that I have a tendency to do that!

Anyway I'm not gonna worry about this anymore. I love helping you guys but also I don't mind if some times I can't go on a run because there isn't a spot. I'm really just here to have fun and play with my old and new friends.

Oh and I do apologize that my initial wording sounded like I was being a jerk... really didn't mean that...

It all becomes clearer now. Though, one thing to keep in mind is that usually each run of a three night Kara run can have different people in the run. So if Kara is cleared in two nights, the group for ZA on the third can easily be set independently. Now if all that's left in Kara after two nights is one or two quick bosses, the third night may get stickier. However, there's nothing that stops the Raid Leaders from having one group make-up for Kara, then a second for ZA.

In the end, I can see merit to scheduling ZA as night three of Kara or independently. It's just a matter of setting expectations.

That's a good point, really since we have separate sign ups already for each night we are pretty much doing what I suggested anyway...